grouse shooting poll

[ConorOGorman]

The introduction to the web poll states “Should the Slaughter of Grouse be allowed to continue?” and presents "Eight Reasons to Oppose Grouse Shooting".

BASC asked the website owner if he would balance the introduction to the poll by including a list of "eight reasons to support grouse shooting" which he did and which are:

1.Grouse shooting is carried out with a high level of care and responsibility and is considered by many to be the pinnacle of game shooting.

2.Careful conservation of grouse moors allows millions of visitors to enjoy access to areas of breathtaking scenery and wildlife.

3.The management of uplands for grouse shooting is protecting the iconic heather moorland habitat for future generations to enjoy.

4.Managing heather helps preserve the UK's biggest carbon store in underlying peat.

5.Over 60% of England's nationally protected sites are managed grouse moors.

6.Heather moorland is rarer than rainforest and threatened globally. The remaining 75% worldwide is in Britain thanks to grouse shooting.

7.Nationally scarce waders and bird of prey flourish on grouse moors.

8.Grouse shooting provides the economic engine to pay for conservation management and to maintain employment in remote rural areas. In turn, this employment helps communities and their schools, shops and pubs to survive. Local hotels benefit from shooting parties staying and there are knock-on effects through to garages, gun-shops and a whole range of related businesses, many of which would otherwise struggle.

The yes votes have continued to come in steadily so that the yes vote is now above the 70% it was when 1,000+ yes votes were removed.

A lot of people on this and other shooting forums and various facebook pages have rallied together to vote in this poll - which is great to see.

[Polchraine]

Welcome Conor - you are the second (as far as I know) member of BASC staff to join.

[Dougan]

The introduction to the web poll states “Should the Slaughter of Grouse be allowed to continue?” and presents "Eight Reasons to Oppose Grouse Shooting".

BASC asked the website owner if he would balance the introduction to the poll by including a list of "eight reasons to support grouse shooting" which he did and which are:

1.Grouse shooting is carried out with a high level of care and responsibility and is considered by many to be the pinnacle of game shooting.

2.Careful conservation of grouse moors allows millions of visitors to enjoy access to areas of breathtaking scenery and wildlife.

3.The management of uplands for grouse shooting is protecting the iconic heather moorland habitat for future generations to enjoy.

4.Managing heather helps preserve the UK's biggest carbon store in underlying peat.

5.Over 60% of England's nationally protected sites are managed grouse moors.

6.Heather moorland is rarer than rainforest and threatened globally. The remaining 75% worldwide is in Britain thanks to grouse shooting.

7.Nationally scarce waders and bird of prey flourish on grouse moors.

8.Grouse shooting provides the economic engine to pay for conservation management and to maintain employment in remote rural areas. In turn, this employment helps communities and their schools, shops and pubs to survive. Local hotels benefit from shooting parties staying and there are knock-on effects through to garages, gun-shops and a whole range of related businesses, many of which would otherwise struggle.

The yes votes have continued to come in steadily so that the yes vote is now above the 70% it was when 1,000+ yes votes were removed.

A lot of people on this and other shooting forums and various facebook pages have rallied together to vote in this poll - which is great to see.

These 'eight reasons to support' are even more one-sided and biased than the 'eight reasons to oppose'...

...while a well managed area could provide some (that's 'some' not 'total') benefits environmentally, lets not forget that grouse shooting is a business, where you breed the maximum birds in order to make the maximum profit from charging folk to shoot them...so to don a halo and bang on about 'conservation' and 'carbon capture' is just laughable...


And of course; welcome to the forum :cheers:

[Jenks]

The introduction to the web poll states “Should the Slaughter of Grouse be allowed to continue?” and presents "Eight Reasons to Oppose Grouse Shooting".

BASC asked the website owner if he would balance the introduction to the poll by including a list of "eight reasons to support grouse shooting" which he did and which are:

1.Grouse shooting is carried out with a high level of care and responsibility and is considered by many to be the pinnacle of game shooting.

2.Careful conservation of grouse moors allows millions of visitors to enjoy access to areas of breathtaking scenery and wildlife.

3.The management of uplands for grouse shooting is protecting the iconic heather moorland habitat for future generations to enjoy.

4.Managing heather helps preserve the UK's biggest carbon store in underlying peat.

5.Over 60% of England's nationally protected sites are managed grouse moors.

6.Heather moorland is rarer than rainforest and threatened globally. The remaining 75% worldwide is in Britain thanks to grouse shooting.

7.Nationally scarce waders and bird of prey flourish on grouse moors.

8.Grouse shooting provides the economic engine to pay for conservation management and to maintain employment in remote rural areas. In turn, this employment helps communities and their schools, shops and pubs to survive. Local hotels benefit from shooting parties staying and there are knock-on effects through to garages, gun-shops and a whole range of related businesses, many of which would otherwise struggle.

The yes votes have continued to come in steadily so that the yes vote is now above the 70% it was when 1,000+ yes votes were removed.

A lot of people on this and other shooting forums and various facebook pages have rallied together to vote in this poll - which is great to see.

These 'eight reasons to support' are even more one-sided and biased than the 'eight reasons to oppose'...

...while a well managed area could provide some (that's 'some' not 'total') benefits environmentally, lets not forget that grouse shooting is a business, where you breed the maximum birds in order to make the maximum profit from charging folk to shoot them...so to don a halo and bang on about 'conservation' and 'carbon capture' is just laughable...


And of course; welcome to the forum :cheers:

Dougan...

As I understand it Grouse are not like Pheasant or Red Legged French partridge, they are more like the English or grey Partridge , you can't as you say:

breed the maximum birds

All you can do is manage the environment where the birds breed and subsequently live, and hope that the population thrives.


Jenks

[Dougan]

Dougan...

As I understand it Grouse are not like Pheasant or Red Legged French partridge, they are more like the English or grey Partridge , you can't as you say:

breed the maximum birds

All you can do is manage the environment where the birds breed and subsequently live, and hope that the population thrives.


Jenks

Yes you're right in that they're not bred in pens; but that the area is managed in a way that the grouse will flourish - I'm sure that there are some shoots that do this in a balanced way (with regard to the environment), but there has also been plenty of evidence in the past of shoots where the managers shoot and poison any other wildlife that may impact on the grouse...is that good for conservation?...is that good for other people who want to enjoy the wildlife in the area?...

...there have also been reports of heath-land being burnt off when it gets out of control (with regard to ideal conditions for breeding grouse and shooting)...is that good for carbon capture?

[ConorOGorman]

Polchraine and Dougan thanks for the welcome and thanks again to all from the forum that contributed to the poll which now registers 74% support for grouse shooting.

As shooters we will of course have differing views on a whole range of shooting disciplines and activities but an attack on one part of our sport in one part of the UK is an attack on us all, so it has been so encouraging to see a real growth in solidarity across the shooting world - especially online - on various web polls and in response to government consultations in the last 18 months or so.

Shooting forums like full-bore are playing a key role in that especially when members that read about new campaigns on their forum and spread the news via Facebook and recently a small group of shooters set up FirearmsUK on Facebook which is helping to foster that sense of solidarity and encouraging people to get involved.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Firearms ... 4596715256

Dougan, I think that those eight reasons to support grouse shooting are actually quite conservative. There have been calls recently for the Glorious 12th to be a day of national celebration on which everyone can take pride in the major environmental contribution of the country’s iconic heather-clad moorland and as many have heard M&S have started to sell red grouse at two stores in London.

The link below lists many studies on the conservation benefits of grouse shooting

http://www.gwct.org.uk/research__survey ... efault.asp

The links below give more background on how managing heather helps preserve the UK's biggest carbon store in underlying peat

http://www.gwct.org.uk/about_us/news/3723.asp

http://www.steelscience.net/en/18/3/185 ... thland.htm

http://www.moorlandassociation.org/carbon_lockup.asp

In summing up there is a growing belief that whilst as shooters we should remain robust in defence we can each do more to promote ourselves, locally, regionally and nationally, as a major force for conservation in the UK.

[Dougan]

M&S have started to sell red grouse at two stores in London.

But will not say which estates they came from...

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... gal-source

[Dougan]

The link below lists many studies on the conservation benefits of grouse shooting

http://www.gwct.org.uk/research__survey ... efault.asp

While clearly having game shooter's interests at heart, this is a very interesting and educational site with a balanced and factual approach...I've saved it to my desktop, thank you.

[Dougan]

The links below give more background on how managing heather helps preserve the UK's biggest carbon store in underlying peat

http://www.gwct.org.uk/about_us/news/3723.asp

http://www.steelscience.net/en/18/3/185 ... thland.htm

http://www.moorlandassociation.org/carbon_lockup.asp

But these links (good ones again thanks) don't actually support the argument that grouse shooting helps preserve carbon storage...they show that there are actually problems with excessively frequent burning by estate managers, and that a lot more research and study is required to make sure that a reasonable balance is found.

I really don't think that the BASC should be stating (as in the '8 reasons for') that grouse shooting is good for heath and peat bog preservation - these environments were there thousands of years before the estates, and could quite easily be managed without them...

...personally, I think that done properly and ethically, estates can manage the land sustainably...but I can't support the BASC or grouse shooting estates unless they acknowledge that there has been, and still is poor management that has a negative impact on the environment.

As someone who is pro-shooting but environmentally conscious, it is very frustrating that every argument between shooters and environmentalists have both sides making totally biased one-sided statements, and will not accept the truth if it conflicts with there interests.

[Dougan]

As shooters we will of course have differing views on a whole range of shooting disciplines and activities but an attack on one part of our sport in one part of the UK is an attack on us all, so it has been so encouraging to see a real growth in solidarity across the shooting world - especially online - on various web polls and in response to government consultations in the last 18 months or so.....

.....In summing up there is a growing belief that whilst as shooters we should remain robust in defence we can each do more to promote ourselves, locally, regionally and nationally, as a major force for conservation in the UK.

Your first statement is why I couldn't vote 'no' - however we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand for fear of the 'antis' when there is a genuine issue that needs addressing...

...I totally agree with your summing up; and if the BASC didn't do things like blindly supporingt all grouse shooting estates without acknowledging some of the problems; then I would be more able to support them...