Historic Rifle Collecting/Target Shooting FAC application

[Alberto]

Hi all,

I'm getting quite far down my probation now and I'll hopefully be putting in for my FAC soon, so I'm thinking about what to ask for. I'm leaning towards historic service rifles and I'm wondering what people's experiences are of this as a reason for ownership.

Can I say I'm interested in WW2 and early cold war service rifles and ask for slots to own a few for Collecting/Target Shooting/Recreational shooting? I might want to have a go at the Historic Service Rifle comps once I've got some experience but I expect it will be mostly just for fun. Could I ask to get a Mosin (7.62x54r), a Mauser (7.92x57) and an Enfield(.303) as a starter? I'd be shooting them at Bisley for the most part I expect. I'd also put down some .22LRs for practice and local Gallery shooting on Club nights? Would I later be able to apply for variations for more? Assuming I had room to safely store them. I'm thinking perhaps a K31 or a 7.62 Nato converted Mauser? What about variations within a Calibre or rifle type? Can I say I want a Mosin 91/30 and an M44? Can I say I want a Polish and Soviet M44? I'm guessing that ammunition limits would be less for this type of collecting than for pure target shooting. Is ammunition always per gun rather than ammo calibre? Any suggestions on how to go about this?

Thanks.

[Rockhopper]

You don't need to say why you want them - just put down "target shooting at whatever club plus any other home office approved range".

My initial grant was 2 x .303 plus 1 x 7.62 and 1 x .22rf plus a .38 gallery rifle which i later swapped for another .22

They gave me 300 rounds of each full bore calibre with no questions asked.

You don't specify the exact rifle on your form, just the calibre. So apply for 2 x 7.62/54R, 1 x 7.92/57 and so on.

If you go down the collecting route then you have to be more than just interested, you need to be doing research or opening a museum or such like. Just because you are interested isn't enough.

[Ovenpaa]

If your licensing department decides to allows you to hold such a collection first time out with multiples of the same cartridge is entirely down to your FEO, the department and yourself. Saying you are interested in something will need reasonable supporting evidence both written and verbal. I am in the position where I can bore my FEO to distraction on specific subjects and classes of firearm and he invariably throws his arms up in the air and says 'Anything else?' Such a relationship is not unique however it is based on trust and several years as an FAC holder.

Have a chat with your FEO and explain your intentions, you can always add more at the time of your visit.

[bnz41]

Question, how many firearms are you going to apply for when you send in the FAC application.

Reason I ask Essex have had in the past a limit how many they will allow when you first apply, (taking about a year to get FAC as well) then will not issue variations for several years on. So it maybe worth thinking long and hard about what you want to use for Target Shooting.

"ammunition always per gun rather than ammo calibre"

No per calibre. If you want 3x Mosin's in 7.62x54r then you would apply for enough to cover all 3 rifles, again Essex may also limit ammo amounts when you first apply.

[Rockhopper]

Essex seem to be a law unto themselves! A friend of mine up here has added six extra rifles in his first two months after his grant!

[Alberto]

Thanks for the advice and answers chaps. I'm not sure I understand what research I could meaningfully do except for my own interest. As a total novice, I can't imagine I would be pushing the frontiers of knowledge much. Is there a historical service rifles society? If not, maybe there needs to be. Although, I think I have the bookshelves to prove a long-standing interest in military history and I'm quite sure I could bore most people on the subject. Perhaps the biggest reason for wanting to collect is the unreliable and dwindling supply of these guns. It could take years to find rare or good examples and if you sold them there's no guarantee you'd find another or they wouldn't be twice the price you sold it for if you did. I probably need to talk to the FEO, I can see why trust and a personal relationship would help. I'm not really expecting, and couldn't afford, to buy 20 rifles off the start line but the five-year life of a FAC is quite a long time. As for the special nature of Essex, I suppose I'll have to go for what I want and be prepared to scale it down.

[Tommygunn]

I think, as far as FAC, I am where you are aiming, having not long ago having had a condition added to my cert permitting collecting. My local plod are happy enough with this and it provides a good reason in itself to acquire and possess which might ease the requirement for them to make sure I'm using them all.

I should add that I do not research in any formal way, other than for my own interest, or am a member of any such historical society though I have, and am, considering the HBSA. I can, however, as with others here bore my FEO to tears about the subject and it was her in fact who suggested I might want to think about it in the first place. Ultimately, on her recommendation, I wrote in detailing my interest and collecting ambitions, (I concurrently acquire the bayonets, tools, accessories and minutiae around my core collection), providing a fair bit of detail on the history of each military long arm I then possessed which must have been enough as I got the amended FAC back practically by return!

I'd suggest you get your certificate and sound out your FEO whilst starting out as a plain ol' club shooter and, once established, perhaps look to get the condition added as I did.

[Rockhopper]

Just shoot the things, three times a year is enough to justify having them.

[Rockhopper]

Page 63 here re collecting:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 16_v20.pdf

[Ovenpaa]

Regardless of Firearms Licensing Law a collectors condition seems to be entirely down to the vagaries of the individual licensing departments. I have come across some that flatly refuse to allow such a condition whereas others have come across as being overly keen to allow collections to be started.

All very odd...