A 7.62x39mm BREN gun

[Fedaykin]

No not a speculative what if thread, this really was a thing! Well huh you learn something new every day...

[Sixshot6]

To be fair didn't the chinese also try the Type 68 rifle that was pretty much a full auto SKS, then realized that it was still better to copy the AK (though the work did later result in the type 81 to be fair, short stroke gas piston guns do have something going for them).

[shugie]

If the Communists had them, I wonder if they still do, squirrelled away somewhere in case of need?

[saddler]

Wasn't there a .280 BREN to match the EM-2?

[Sixshot6]

Wasn't there a .280 BREN to match the EM-2?

How many actual working 280 EM-2's exist? The one Ian Mccollum looked at was a 7.62x51 version that seemed to be someone's pride and joy.

[Laurie]

Wasn't there a .280 BREN to match the EM-2?

It was a belt fed GPMG that was based on a much adapted Bren gas operated mechanism, called the Taden gun. After the USA killed the 280 British as a Nato contender, the War Office abandoned the Taden alongside the EM2 and bought the FN MAG more or less off the shelf suggesting that as with the EM2, the Taden action was too small and light to handle the 7.62X51mm.

As to a 7.62X39 Bren, to be reliable it might have needed a fair bit of bolt lightening to suit the little cartridge. On the other hand, the top mounted magazine feed would have made it better suited to this role than the Soviet RPD which was reportedly only marginally reliable as the amount of gas bleed-off available from the 7.62X39 is barely sufficient to operate the action, lift and feed a heavy cartridge belt. I'd have thought though that alternatives such as AK based actions and the RPD would have been much quicker and cheaper to make than anything based on the Bren with its receiver which started as a solid forging and many, many machining actions later was down to less than 40% of its original weight.

[Laurie]

Wasn't there a .280 BREN to match the EM-2?

How many actual working 280 EM-2's exist? The one Ian Mccollum looked at was a 7.62x51 version that seemed to be someone's pride and joy.

There is a bunch of them (EM1 + EM2 280s) in the Pattern Room collection in Leeds and it seems other odd examples around in other army museums. Any 7.62X51 EM2s will be much rarer as only a handful were made before the point where the Attlee government had decided in principle to adopt the 7mm cartridge and its two principal weapons (EM2 and Taden). The incoming Conservative government of 1951 quickly moved to cancel the adoption of the cartridge and to join the USA in its proposal for the T65E3 to become the standard Nato smallarms cartridge. That killed the weapons too, the 3rd iteration (1st 7.92X33mm; 2nd 7X43mm British) of the FN FAL being much more easily adapted to the T65/7.62X51 than the EM2, even though it now only retained the 'F' (Fusil) of its original title - no longer 'A' (Automatique) or 'L' (Legere).

[Fedaykin]

Ian has an article up very interesting:

http://www.breachbangclear.com/wtw-chin ... n-7-62x39/

This pic gave me pause:

[Sixshot6]

Ian has an article up very interesting:

http://www.breachbangclear.com/wtw-chin ... n-7-62x39/

This pic gave me pause:

2 barrels firing at the same time? Aren't Gilboa doing that with the snake?

[snayperskaya]

To be fair didn't the chinese also try the Type 68 rifle that was pretty much a full auto SKS, then realized that it was still better to copy the AK (though the work did later result in the type 81 to be fair, short stroke gas piston guns do have something going for them).

The Chinese actually fielded more Type 56 carbines (SKS) than Type 56 assault rifles (AK), the ratio was around 4:1 and the SKS stayed in front line service for 30 years.The reason for this was the reliability of the SKS coupled to the Chinese doctrine of more accurate fire compared the the Soviet doctrine of massed automatic fire, which the AK excelled at.When the SKS was removed from front line service and reissued to militia and reserve units the front line troops actually kicked up a fuss and begged to have them back!.

The Soviets put short stroke gas systems to very good use with the SKS, SVT-40, AVT-40 and the Dragunov SVD.The AK-46, a prototype of the AK-47 also had a short stroke gas system and a gas tube similar to the SKS but this was dropped on the final production model to simplify manufacturing.

The RPD was very reliable in normal circumstances and has appeared in just about every war zone since it entered service (it was also the first weapon chambered for the M43 7.62x39 round) and is still being used in Syria, Libya,Afghanistan and Syria etc today.The only reliability problem that is a potential problem is if the drum that holds the loose 100 round belt fills with crap and debris in dirty conditions but it pretty much has to get packed soild.The way the bolt and the locking mechanism is designed allows the gas pressure from the 7.62x39 round to cycle the action perfectly and the barrel on them last well as like most Russian military firearms the barrels, chambers and gas blocks are chrome lined.