Definition of long barrelled pistol.

[bradaz11]

Not quite with you Stuart. 12 and 24 doesn't apply to a s1 semi and pump. Of course there is nothing to stipulate a stock needs to be attached to a rifle, but you'd be hard pushed to get a conventional rifle with 12/24 without a stock!

sorry, I didn't clock an escort was a pump / semi. my point stands with a double barrel though. if you take one that is section 2 and chop the barrel down to below 24", it has been proofed as a shotgun but then becomes a firearm by virtue of it's length. same as if you go beyond 12" it becomes section 5. It ceases to be a shotgun certificate eligible item, regardless of original proof or classification, because it is too short to be classed as that. AFAIK the law is pretty clear on this point with shotguns.

But, the law only says for firearms (unless specified like pump shotguns etc), that they have to have 12" barrel, 24" OAL, it doesn't stipulate action, so why can you not take a ruger 10/22, chop the stock and shape it into a pistol grip, adding some sort of brace, then chop the barrel to 13" and being over 24" It is still complying with the law that says it must be this size, nowhere does it say to be a rifle you must have a stock or other features. it gives no mention of handguards. So why does it cease to be a rifle? afterall the shotgun is still a shotgun (evidenced by the sec 1 shotguns on my FAC are still all listed as shotguns!), they just cannot be held by the permission of a shotgun certificate

[Sim G]

But, the law only says for firearms (unless specified like pump shotguns etc), that they have to have 12" barrel, 24" OAL, it doesn't stipulate action, so why can you not take a ruger 10/22, chop the stock and shape it into a pistol grip, adding some sort of brace, then chop the barrel to 13" and being over 24" It is still complying with the law that says it must be this size, nowhere does it say to be a rifle you must have a stock or other features. it gives no mention of handguards. So why does it cease to be a rifle? afterall the shotgun is still a shotgun (evidenced by the sec 1 shotguns on my FAC are still all listed as shotguns!), they just cannot be held by the permission of a shotgun certificate

Right, I think I know where you're coming from now.....

The law defines what a firearm is; "a lethal barrelled weapons discharging any shot, missile, blah, blah, blah..."

S1(3) states that a firearm certificate is required to possess any firearm except certain shotguns. And believe it or not, the same section and sub section of the Firearms Act 1920 states;

"A firearm certificate shall be in the prescribed form and shall specify the nature and number of the firearms to which it relates..."

This has carried over into Firearms Rules, hence the "nature" or type and use of firearm must be specified. This is why variations are for calibre and action type or even anomalies such as "long barrel revolver" and "multi-shot shotgun".

So back to your Ruger 10/22. You have possession of it and it is entered on your certificate as a ".22rf Rifle". You chop the barrel. But it's still a rifle, (I'll get to that), and a s1 Firearm. You chop the stock off and weld a rod to the pistol grip. It's still a s1 firearm, but you have changed the prescribed type of firearm to that of a long barrel pistol, requiring a separate variation.

And as for the law stating that a rifle must have a stock, if actually does....

s57(4) of the 1968 Act interprets certain aspects of the law. S25(3) of the 1988 Act inserted "Rifle includes carbine". The principal act states that therms of the section will be "construed accordingly", that is to be taken as it would be ordinarily expected to, i.e. Accepted definition.

Flicking through several dictionaries, "rifle" is a shoulder fired gun. Description of a rifle includes a butt stock. To be a rifle, it would be construed accordingly that a butt stock would be attached to the gun. So if you lop the stock off, in U.K. Law it ceases to be a rifle or carbine.

[breacher]

Comprehensive answer there !

So a degree of common sense is used when deciding whether a firearm is a long pistol or short rifle !

[bradaz11]

yep, thanks for the great answer Simon