Permanently attached suppressors ?

Anything shooting related including law and procedure questions.

Moderator: dromia

Forum rules
Should your post be in Grumpy Old Men? This area is for general shooting related posts only please.
Locked
Message
Author
User avatar
Sim G
Past Supporter
Posts: 10730
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:09 pm
Contact:

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#41 Post by Sim G »

TattooedGun wrote:
So whilst you are correct that it is considered a firearm when complete, the barrel is also considered a firearm by it's own merit as a component part.

S57 is Interpretation and not definition and the interpretation expressed in s57(1) is the requirement for what needs a firearm certificate. A firearm or a component of a firearm requires certification if held separately. It does not define the parameters of that component part. S5 defines a firearm if it has a short barrel, not the barrel on its own.
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
User avatar
breacher
Posts: 3475
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 pm
Home club or Range: EBSC
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#42 Post by breacher »

Well they ( both Home Office and FLD ) are certainly thinking about it for a while so it must be a new one to them.

Otherwise they would have just answered immediately based on last time similar question arose.
http://www.phoenixtactical.co.uk

RFD 2043 Cambridgeshire
User avatar
breacher
Posts: 3475
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 pm
Home club or Range: EBSC
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#43 Post by breacher »

Received a reply from the Home Office today....................

They are ok with a barrel going sub 12" during conversion as long as....

The firearm was sec 1 before and complies with sec 1 when finished.

Is proofed once converted.

Work is done by Sec 5 RFD
http://www.phoenixtactical.co.uk

RFD 2043 Cambridgeshire
User avatar
TattooedGun
Past Supporter
Posts: 2510
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:55 am
Home club or Range: Dudley Rifle Club, WNSC, UKPSA, Bromsgrove
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#44 Post by TattooedGun »

breacher wrote:Received a reply from the Home Office today....................

They are ok with a barrel going sub 12" during conversion as long as....

The firearm was sec 1 before and complies with sec 1 when finished.

Is proofed once converted.

Work is done by Sec 5 RFD
That's gonna be the fly in the ointment, however good to know solid outline from Home Office and that it is do-able without having to start from an un-chambered blank, which for non Sec 5 RFD's might still be the only way to do so lawfully.
User avatar
breacher
Posts: 3475
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 pm
Home club or Range: EBSC
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#45 Post by breacher »

TattooedGun wrote:
breacher wrote:Received a reply from the Home Office today....................

They are ok with a barrel going sub 12" during conversion as long as....

The firearm was sec 1 before and complies with sec 1 when finished.

Is proofed once converted.

Work is done by Sec 5 RFD
That's gonna be the fly in the ointment, however good to know solid outline from Home Office and that it is do-able without having to start from an un-chambered blank, which for non Sec 5 RFD's might still be the only way to do so lawfully.
Already have one sec 5 able to do it. And another getting back to me tomorrow.

Just a matter of cost and what mod to use now...........

Yes - nice to have it in writing !!
http://www.phoenixtactical.co.uk

RFD 2043 Cambridgeshire
AR15
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#46 Post by AR15 »

I'm amazed the Home Office have written that and would like to see the letter.
The law states that if you take a chambered barrel and cut it below 12'' then it immediately becomes a component part of Section 5 aba. All component parts of Sec5 a and aba firearms cannot be converted to Section1.
I don't have a problem with the Sec5 authority chopping the barrel, its clear that the Home Office are aware that the barrel is being converted to Sec 5 status, hence the requirement for the work to be undertaken by a Sec5 authority. However, the conversion of the subsequent aba component back to sec 1 IS illegal and so is the transfer back to the customer.

It makes absolutely no sense at all that they would state that the firearm (and I assume by virtue the barrel also) has to start life as a Section 1 component and not Section 5 as it is converted to Section 5 regardless in the modification process.
In this case Section 5 (1)(aba).
User avatar
safetyfirst
Past Supporter
Posts: 2651
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:41 am
Contact:

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#47 Post by safetyfirst »

I have heard of the same process being ok from yet another section 5 gunsmith.

Can we have this determination made public?
User avatar
breacher
Posts: 3475
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 pm
Home club or Range: EBSC
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#48 Post by breacher »

AR15 wrote:I'm amazed the Home Office have written that and would like to see the letter.
The law states that if you take a chambered barrel and cut it below 12'' then it immediately becomes a component part of Section 5 aba. All component parts of Sec5 a and aba firearms cannot be converted to Section1.
I don't have a problem with the Sec5 authority chopping the barrel, its clear that the Home Office are aware that the barrel is being converted to Sec 5 status, hence the requirement for the work to be undertaken by a Sec5 authority. However, the conversion of the subsequent aba component back to sec 1 IS illegal and so is the transfer back to the customer.

It makes absolutely no sense at all that they would state that the firearm (and I assume by virtue the barrel also) has to start life as a Section 1 component and not Section 5 as it is converted to Section 5 regardless in the modification process.
In this case Section 5 (1)(aba).
I e-mailed them - the reply was in the form of an e-mail - not a letter. It was signed by a specific person rather than an anonymous proforma reply.

It would appear ( I assume ) that their reasoning is that its part of a building process.

Much like when you take a rifle with a 12" barrel and over 24" overall length, then take off the stock to replace it. It is under 24" for the few minutes between stocks.

Or you replace the buffer tube on a 12" AR. When the tube is off, the AR is under 24" but still has pistol grip etc and COULD be discharged so us a functioning sub 24" firearm. So is it section 5 with the buffer tube off and does it stay section 5 after ?

Or when you build a section 1 SLR using componant parts of what was a sec 5 firearm.
Last edited by breacher on Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.phoenixtactical.co.uk

RFD 2043 Cambridgeshire
AR15
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#49 Post by AR15 »

What exactly did it say ?

As a Section 5 dealer I have a Section5 components register as well as Section 5 firearms. When I take a Section 1 barrel and chop it to under 12'' I create a Section 5aba component that I HAVE to enter in my register.
I cannot then dispose of that component to a Section1 certificate holder with extra stuff welded on the end to make it legal as I am not permitted to convert the component.

The only components of a Section 5 firearm that remain Section1 are parts from Section 5ab (semi auto) firearms.
Last edited by AR15 on Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
breacher
Posts: 3475
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:32 pm
Home club or Range: EBSC
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Permanently attached suppressors ?

#50 Post by breacher »

Cut and paste.....

( by the way - you never answered MY question re cleaning the crown on your sub raven )




The following advice is based on a 0.22"LR bolt action/self-loading Section 1 Rifle.  

When you are modifying a Section 1 firearm to another Section 1 firearm, the gun, in theory, should be in the hands of the firearms dealer whilst this modification takes place. Whilst the firearm is in its Section 5 condition, this condition is not meant to be permanent, and should only last as long as the modification takes place, then returned to its Section 1 status. This shouldn’t be a problem as long as the following are adhered to -

 

·       the gun in its current state is a Section 1 Firearm

·       the RFD is a Section 5 licence holder

·       the gun is re-proofed with all its modifications complete (fixed sound moderator etc.)

·       the work is completed to a standard that would ensure the permanency of the moderator and any other work done  

·       you contact your local police firearm licensing department to register and apply to have this modification on your certificate.

·       When the modification is complete it must comply to the definition a Section 1 Firearm in every aspect

I hope that this reply is helpful.

Yours sincerely,

Etc........
http://www.phoenixtactical.co.uk

RFD 2043 Cambridgeshire
Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests