advice on choosing my first fac rifle and s1 shotgun.

[20series]

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=5663

With regards to the Remmy 700 and possible upgrades click on the thread link and you'll see how mine changed over the years.

Alan

[JackDavis]

Couldn't agree more with trying a few before you decide! my first rimfire was very cheap as that's what I could afford at the time, looking back I should of saved up abit longer abd bought something better

Do you have to be a member of a club what does practical shotgun before putting it as the reason on your certificate?

ive been looking at getting a sec1 shotgun but the range I would use it at I am not a member I Just pay everytime I go there as it works out cheaper

any advice would be appreciated!?

[The Gun Pimp]

Thank you all. I'll be shooting 100M on daily basis and occasionally 600M. OK understand now I don't need .308 calibre. Like dromia said I'll ask people in the club if I can try their guns before making any decision. I was planing to have only one rifle and if I could use .223 ( can I?) on 100M that would be great compromise between 100M and 600M range.
I give up with the shotgun too much hassle for occasionally clay shooting. Stay with target shooting only.

Yes, a 223 may be OK but it depends where you intend to go with this sport and often, after a year, your concept of shooting may well have changed and you may want to sell on your first gun.

Believe me, it will be a lot easier to sell-on a 308 than a 223.

A s/h Remington PSS in 308 is a good starter rifle - don't pay more than about £650 and you'll get your money back when you come to sell-on.

[zanes]

Couldn't agree more with trying a few before you decide! my first rimfire was very cheap as that's what I could afford at the time, looking back I should of saved up abit longer abd bought something better

Do you have to be a member of a club what does practical shotgun before putting it as the reason on your certificate?

ive been looking at getting a sec1 shotgun but the range I would use it at I am not a member I Just pay everytime I go there as it works out cheaper

any advice would be appreciated!?

Mine is specified for "target shooting". My home club has a range that is OK for slug, so not an issue.

[Richard 1951]

None of my shooting colleagues have a great deal of experience of full-bore shooting, mainly being small-bore and under-lever carbine owners. I shall be very grateful for advice on the purchase of a .223 rifle, scope and moderator. I have a budget of about £1200 and I would prefer to buy new if possible. There are a large number of 'special offers' around the UK at present, but I prefer to be advised by people who have actually owned a specific type.
In return I shall be happy to share what knowledge I have about .357 reloading, equipment to use and the casting of lead and lead alloy bullets.

As we used to say at school "Dulce et decorum est, pro amici morire

[m.plum]

Hi there, thanks for all comments. The club I joined use 900m and 1000m range. I used 308 musgrave rifle and I had a few great shots. If I want to use 223 I would have to join some other small bore club . 308 is nearly £1 per shot. Do you know how much for round with 223?

[Maggot]

Having shot full bore for a while in a few modes I recently felt myself asking why the hell I did not own a half decent Remmy 700.

Its an all rounder that has a hell of a lot of chassis systems made for it and after market bits and has seen service with just about everyone at some stage.

If you are shooting out to 600 yards, although I am usually into 308 I surprised myself with my little BAR at the weekend shooting a string of 5s and Vs mag rested at 300 and the majority the same at 600...from an 18" barrel...its not bad.

Them that did not land in the bull at 600 were down to pilot error either missing the wind change and dumping them into the 4 or dumping one off the bottom of the black.

When you consider I am using an Elcan which has in this case a 4x mag and no elevation control as such, I was aiming between the edge and about 12" in on the board and the dropped round was because I came back on aim with the 500 POA and not the 600.....I am used to shooting at 500 with CSR so the brain cell took over....

My real point is this, I am not a good shot, but the .223 round in a Remmy 700 with a decent (sensible) barrel would allow bipod and "being shot properly" is more than capable and like the .308 has a wealth of reloading supplies and data available.

Its a thought...cheaper to feed as well, particularly with hand loading.

[Maggot]

Hi there, thanks for all comments. The club I joined use 900m and 1000m range. I used 308 musgrave rifle and I had a few great shots. If I want to use 223 I would have to join some other small bore club . 308 is nearly £1 per shot. Do you know how much for round with 223?

.223 is not classed as small bore bud, that really refers to the .22RF, I am not sure if .17HMR comes under small bore to be fair.

Ammo cost is relative and would really be dictated by what sort of performance you are looking at.

I can get SS109 5.56x45 (556 NATO) for about 38-39p a pop. I can load far better ammunition (half the group size with better balistic performance even from and 18" barrel) for about 35p a pop, even cheaper if I load 55gr PPU bullets fo rshort range practice, but we shoot a lot of the things. Shooting .223 at 900-1000 is a specialist area which I think, to get good results might benefit from a specilist rig and loads (its an FTR option....but I have not seen anyone use .223 and be competitive at long range). Yes, you will get the odd "Thats crap....I shot really well at 1000 with my 223". Probably, but is this consistent?

IF you want to habitually shoot at 900/1000 and are not in one of the comp classes (match rifle, TR, F or FTR) then there are better chamberings I dont know enough about to advise (6.5x47 Lapua? etc).

Its a bit of a specialist distance past 800yds as bullets can get squirelly as they slow down and this typically happens in that 800-1000 band with a lot of loads.

I think you will do best looking at what you club use and what sort of shooting you are likely to do. Remember to look at what disciplines you want to shoot and make sure that they advise a rifle that is not only capable/competitive but also legal within the rules etc. That if you do compete and it may be a long way off but its better to try and get it right to start with than waste money chasing the dragon. good luck.

[Maggot]

Thank you all. I'll be shooting 100M on daily basis and occasionally 600M. OK understand now I don't need .308 calibre. Like dromia said I'll ask people in the club if I can try their guns before making any decision. I was planing to have only one rifle and if I could use .223 ( can I?) on 100M that would be great compromise between 100M and 600M range.
I give up with the shotgun too much hassle for occasionally clay shooting. Stay with target shooting only.

Believe me, it will be a lot easier to sell-on a 308 than a 223.

Unless its an AR....they you would not sell it Vince

That, is a damned good point and 308 should be easier to coax over the longer ranges...

[WelshShooter]

None of my shooting colleagues have a great deal of experience of full-bore shooting, mainly being small-bore and under-lever carbine owners. I shall be very grateful for advice on the purchase of a .223 rifle, scope and moderator. I have a budget of about £1200 and I would prefer to buy new if possible. There are a large number of 'special offers' around the UK at present, but I prefer to be advised by people who have actually owned a specific type.
In return I shall be happy to share what knowledge I have about .357 reloading, equipment to use and the casting of lead and lead alloy bullets.

As we used to say at school "Dulce et decorum est, pro amici morire

Given the budget that you have stated you'd be hard pressed to get a good setup at that price (purchased new anyway). The sort of deals I've seen is for building of Howa 1500's which are good rifles for the money. However, if your intentions are to handload here' some advice that will make the difference. There's a wide range of bullet weights available based on the difference uses, you'll find a lot of varmint bullets (~45gr) will work best in barrels with a twist of 1:12" whereas a lot of target bullets (69gr and above) require a faster twist of around 1:8" in order to stabilise the bullet. In my experience, I've had friends with a 1:12" barrel (which are common place) which have struggled to group 69gr Sierra Match Kings within two inches at 100m. I have a CZ 527 varmint which has a 1:9" twist barrel and this stabilises 69gr SMK's no problem (grouping of 0.5" at 100m) and I'm happy shooting this rifle at 6-700m on Fig11 targets which is good enough for me.

You can get Tikka T3's with a 1:8" twist rate but you'll have to wait, when I wanted to order one in I was told it is non-standard and could take up to 9 months to come in (Sportsman Gun Centre, Newport). I have a Tikka T3 varmint in .308 and can tell you that they are fantastic rifles for the money. Since all their rifles are made on identicaly receiver's I would expect the .223 version to be just as good. But for the prices you could buy these new (£8-900 depending on if you want stainless steel barrel, varmint barrel etc.) it would be nigh on impossible to keep in your budget of £1200.

Pic attached is my used CZ 527 varmint kevlar with a new Leupold 3-9x50mm scope. Total cost was £650 for rifle and £300 for the scope (got it while in the US), with rings at £50. Total cost was £1,000 so if you can find a rifle like this for the price you might be lucky to find a good mod for £200. The varmint model has a H-S precision kevlar stock which is nice and light but also pretty sturdy; it seems as though someone had taken the time to bed the rifle too much to my surprise which might indicate why it shoots pretty well. The only downsides I can think about is that there's not as much aftermarket parts compared to a Tikka or Remington but in the 4 years of owning this rifle the only thing I've ever considered changing is the glass on top.