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Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:11 pm
by ColinR
I have seen various mentions around different forums that expanding flat nosed ammunition may be purchased without FAC authorisation if it is for use in tubular magazines. This is not to be confused with proposals to move expanding to Section 1, but is specific to tubular magazines. I cannot find anything definitive, so assume this must be an urban myth?
Re: Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:21 pm
by WelshShooter
I've not heard of that before. You can buy normal jacketed flat point bullets but I always assumed all expanding ammo had to be authorised to be on your FAC. I would take discussions on forums with a pinch of salt with regards to their credibility.
Re: Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:34 pm
by mag41uk
It is in the Home Office guidance and has been quoted on here before.
I think SimG has the info.
It would interesting to find some one who has actually bought bullets or ammo on this basis.
Re: Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:39 pm
by bnz41
A friend of mine has a Winchester UL in 30-30 Kranks sell him flat nosed soft point bullets without a FAC because he could not find other bullets to use in a tube magazine.
http://www.henrykrank.com/index.php?mai ... &x=22&y=17
Re: Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:17 pm
by saddler
This thread...
http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... ow&start=0
& the specific part of Guidance
The 2002 Guidance document covers it......though it seems to get overlooked (similar to the info. in my post last week on shotgun primers)
see: Para 3.16 of the 2002 Home Office Guidance to Police
AND
Sim G wrote:If they weren't referring to expanding ammunition and bullets, there would be no need to mention it, as flat point FMJ and the likes are not controlled. Roger Francis had a letter years ago from the Home Office that confirmed what was believed was intended in the 2002 guidance, namely that expanding bullets with a flat meplat, when used in a lever gun, fall into s1. In my cabinet I have JSP ammunition in .30-30, .32 Win Spl, .32-20, .357 mag and .44 mag. In by reloading cupboard, I have bullets as well. My FEO has seen them and my RFD sells them to me. I am more than confident that in the circumstances, S1 applies.
Re: Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:24 pm
by saddler
WelshShooter wrote:I've not heard of that before. You can buy normal jacketed flat point bullets but I always assumed all expanding ammo had to be authorised to be on your FAC. I would take discussions on forums with a pinch of salt with regards to their credibility.
It's in the Guidance, along with a good few other interesting facts & lots of useful information.
Have you not read the current edition, or the Firearms Acts & Amendment Acts?
(Freely available to download from the H.O. website)
Re: Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:54 pm
by ColinR
I would say that 3.16 is unspecific regarding jacketed soft point ammunition and is open to interpretation. I will talk to my FEO.
Also I would want to use lighter expanding bullets for target rather than hunting, so that might knock it out of court anyway as expanding is expressly not authorised for target shooting. Opinions??
Re: Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:05 pm
by saddler
ColinR wrote:I would say that 3.16 is unspecific regarding jacketed soft point ammunition and is open to interpretation. I will talk to my FEO.
Also I would want to use lighter expanding bullets for target rather than hunting, so that might knock it out of court anyway as expanding is expressly not authorised for target shooting. Opinions??
...and the other types of soft-point are?
FMJ are S1. Cast lead
(without jacket, or with just a gas check) are S1. = and the latter will expand faster than most SP
Re: Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:28 pm
by ColinR
saddler wrote:ColinR wrote:I would say that 3.16 is unspecific regarding jacketed soft point ammunition and is open to interpretation. I will talk to my FEO.
Also I would want to use lighter expanding bullets for target rather than hunting, so that might knock it out of court anyway as expanding is expressly not authorised for target shooting. Opinions??
...and the other types of soft-point are?
FMJ are S1. Cast lead
(without jacket, or with just a gas check) are S1. = and the latter will expand faster than most SP
I meant 'jacketed flat point'
3.16 refers to flat point and as you say cast lead and in particular flat point cast lead could be considered as expanding ammunition due to its characteristics. Perhaps I am missing something but I don't see reference to jacketed flat point even though that might be assumed from the reference to Match King. Question whether the drafter of this Guidance considers flat point lead to be expanding per se.
Re: Expanding for use in tubular magazines
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:04 pm
by WelshShooter
saddler wrote:WelshShooter wrote:I've not heard of that before. You can buy normal jacketed flat point bullets but I always assumed all expanding ammo had to be authorised to be on your FAC. I would take discussions on forums with a pinch of salt with regards to their credibility.
It's in the Guidance, along with a good few other interesting facts & lots of useful information.
Have you not read the current edition, or the Firearms Acts & Amendment Acts?
(Freely available to download from the H.O. website)
I have not read the updated edition (April 1st, 2016) but I'll take the hint to read it.
saddler wrote:ColinR wrote:I would say that 3.16 is unspecific regarding jacketed soft point ammunition and is open to interpretation. I will talk to my FEO.
Also I would want to use lighter expanding bullets for target rather than hunting, so that might knock it out of court anyway as expanding is expressly not authorised for target shooting. Opinions??
...and the other types of soft-point are?
FMJ are S1. Cast lead
(without jacket, or with just a gas check) are S1. = and the latter will expand faster than most SP
It's no surprise that there's a lack of common sense with the Firearms Licencing law. I agree that lead would expand more than SP but the issue here is compliance.