Clarification please for new C&B from the learned....

[jimbo303]

Dear All,

I am an experienced shooter at both TR and Classic Service Rifle and have embarked on a journey into the world of ML Revolver - it is a line of shooting I have always wanted to get in to and now for all manner of reasons the time is right.

Variation confirmed, revolver identified and secured and just in the process of identifying the other items that will be required. I must add at this point I will be initially using Pyrodex P just to get started and may well go down the traditional BP route in time. I will also add that I have some experienced mentors for this journey so I am coached correctly.

I am getting an Uberti 1860 Army.

I have been looking at the Pedersoli tubular flasks which throw a 24gr(volume) with the standard spout. I spoke to a Gun Shop yesterday to ascertin the standard size spout the flask came with, and was told quite frankly that using Pyrodex with a 24 gr throw would take my fingers off as the chamber would explode ! I was somewhat surprised as the product is designed to be a 1:1 substitute by volume for BP. The load data for the Uberti 44 ranges between 22 and 30 gr by volume I understand. When I mentioned that his statement seemed odd especially in light of the fact that Pyrodex also sell the 30gr pellets for the 44 - he didnt appear to know anything about it and told me I was totally wrong, and then maybe call back when a colleague was in who knew more. (This is a well known outfit btw). I have to say that I will be ordering any required consumables from other sources now and the sole reason I called them was that I believed I would get some sound advice.

Question - am I correct in the thinking that a 24gr and 30gr volume measure for the pedersoli flasks is the right thing for me. I only ask as the flask seems to be a far simpler and effcient way of delivering the powder as opposed to the individual adjustable measure you can get. Sorry if this sounds daft to you more experienced folk, but I was somewhat taken aback by the rude condescending responses to what I thought was a perfectly simple and politely delivered question - my finger was already to submit the confirm payment button too !

Many thanks and advice welcomed.
J

[FredB]

I have never used Pyrodex, but I was shooting next to a guy last week who was using 24 grn of triple seven, which is supposed to be more powerful than pyrodex snd he was doing OK. The flask will deliver a fairly reliable quantity of powder, but you should not use it directly: explosions have been known to occur. Get yourself some plastic phials and use them---once you have them filled, the loading process is quicker and easier than with a flask.
Fred

[jimbo303]

Thank you Fred

Noted re the phials. I suppose I was just somewhat shocked by the statements I was given which implied gross stupidity on my part. I understand that triple seven has to be downloaded from the BP volumes and the information you gave has tied in with a 20% reduction from max. Clearly this chap didnt know his stuff - but being a newbie I was somewhat surprised given all the information fromm ML shooters I have gleaned from talking to fellow shooters, on herehere and the net as a whole, and I just wanted to be sure I was not being thick !
J

[sclg]

No experience of Pyrodex but I use 21gr 777 in an ROA which I find a good target load. I have colleagues who use 30+ but that's because they value fire and brimstone over accuracy!

[WelshShooter]

I used to shoot Pyrodex P in my 1858 .44 revolver at 25m using a load around 24gr with a 454 ball. In my experience, this shot fine with no issues.

Here is the source data that you will want to cross reference, there is a statement made on the first page re: volume equivalence and the actual data is on the bottom of page 3.
https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uplo ... l_2008.pdf

I will echo Fred's comment above about the flask. I bought a set of vials from Henry Krank (David Pedersoli brand I recall) in a nice foam box. You can load these up in bulk before hand and quickly load at the range.

[legs748]

On the subject of phials, Kranks sell the kits which are all well and good but extortionate, a quick search for plastic test tubes on evil bay and a suitably sized MTM ammo box is infinitely cheaper.......

.......And life is too short for black powder substitutes, don't be put off by cleaning, storage box and licence application. It really is a doddle.

[Dark Skies]

I use test tube pre-measured loads for my Pietta Remington Army model as I load the cylinder out of the gun as it's quicker.
I use a powder flask for loading my Pietta Colt 1851 and I have zero issues using the flask directly after firing my six. I use Triple 7 black powder substitute as our indoor range doesn't allow black powder at the moment. It burns completely with no smouldering residue so no worries about a flash to the flask scenario. I think this is more something you need to worry about with muzzle-loading rifle barrels than Western replica revolvers.
I could be wrong but don't think I am.

I wouldn't bother with Pyrodex pellets unless you want to arse around with larger drilled nipples and hotter caps. I tried them in my standard Remington .44 and not one of them would go off - requiring the removal of the nipples and drifting the loads out with a small brass punch.

You can get hundreds of plastic test tubes with plugs on Ebay from China for pennies.

[stuarta]

I have a .44 Rogers and Spencer and have used substitutes but now only use Black Powder, the difference in the amount of cleaning is not worth worrying about in my opinion and black powder I find has the same but less sudden recoil and is more pleasant to shoot therefore.
Pedersoli flasks come with a standard spout marked 24 gr but this is a rough estimate as a spout will hold more very fine powder than course powder as fine has less air around the grains. You can buy extra spouts in various lengths but I cut the standard ones to different lengths in 4mm increments so I can vary loads. Someone said 4mm will equal 5gr but again this is subject to grain size I believe.
At least two regular shooters at my club use Triple 7 and a 24gr spout and still have fingers. I use 14gr of black and at 25 yards the 454 ball, this past through 12mm ply so it is plenty. Less powder is often more accurate than big loads, look at the winning load information on the Muzzle loaders association web site. Less powder also means less ware on your revolver.
For knowledgeable information from a gun shop I would recommend Daunsey Guns as the nearest to Oxfordshire and they have most if not all the black powder kit you will need. Peter Starley at Warwick was very good but is selling up and moving to Hungary soon but if you have a chance to visit his Aladins cave of guns and gear before he closes you will be amazed and he is very helpful with sound advice.
Enjoy the frustration of learning to shoot a muzzle loader.

[jimbo303]

Dear All,

Many thanks for your replies, comments and advice on certain points. I have taken note accordingly and thank you.

It is clear that I was totally mis-informed by the outlet i spoke to, and it is reassuring that I was not totally wrong - or indeed all ML users of Pyrodex !

I will be starting out with Pyrodex and no doubt vary loads to determine what is best for me and the Revolver itself. My intention is to move into BP in due course - I am not put off by the added requirements for purchasing handling and storing BP but I wanted to start on this basis and develop accordingly as I learn more, also the turnaround time I have achieved on this non BP variation has been lightning quick and was done solely by a phone call, and when discussing with FEO it was clear a BP and the associated RCA etc could take a far longer time. This is something I will be dealing with at renewal mid 2019

stuarta - I went to Dauntseys last weekend (see review) and found them most helpful and knowledgeable. I only approached the other party as they did not have some items in stock that I was after.

Anyway - just waiing the new ticket through the post and then I can start a new shooting journey !

J

[hoppo]

I'm also very new to ML revolvers, and was lucky to obtain 2 ROA's from a retiring club member.
Have only used Pyrodex using up an old container that came with the gun, but the loads were certainly a lot more than what you were told.
I use 777, one of my tubs recommends for 45 old army 35gr. vol. charge that gives 987 fps. Although I've found 24gr to be a very accurate 25yd load.
I bought my phials [2.5ml] [24gr 777 takes up approx 1.5ml] off ebay for about £4 for 60 (minimum requirement if you're going to shoot T&P1 - you will need the second for your filler) and have found an MTM reloading block perfect to hold them.
The phials are a requirement for some competitions, although I was one of only a handful using them at the Pheonix this year.
Other stuff I use:
Semolina powder for filler
Tub of wheel bearing grease [save your magnum lolly sticks to apply]
needle nose pliers - essential to get the inevitable jammed fired cap out
Have thrown my Pendesoli inline capper out as I'm fed up with the caps continually rolling on their side so you might what to try a couple of brands.
Thoroughly enjoying it alongside my GR and Fullbore and hope you do to.
Alan