Reloading for the 6.5 creedmore

[Sim G]

No it wouldn't be. Taking a deposit or "promise to purchase" is not buying or selling. If memory serves there is a stated case where a deposit was paid for a house and the potential buyer moved stuff into outbuildings or something and it was determined that although there was a proprietary interest, there was no ownership as the transaction had not been completed, so in effect the the seller still had ownership and not the buyer.

There was even some Home Office notice years ago when mail order stopped in '97 and RFDs began taking possession on behalf of people about when and by whom possession equaled ownership.

Ultimately, a sale can't go through until full payment is made and the transfer is made legally, which then depends on authority to possess. Give someone the gun, for them to take away and treat as their own, without certificate or authority then you have transferred or sold and then you've broken the law. A few quid as a promise to buy, is not...

[Ovenpaa]

Sim, it is not down to interpretation, it is the law and this has been discussed to the nth degree in the past. Even BASC says:

It is illegal to complete a sale (accept full payment) for a firearm, Section 1 component part or accessory or shot gun to a person who cannot produce a firearm or shot gun certificate authorising them to acquire the firearm etc. You may only take a deposit on a purchase prior to sight of the relevant certificate giving authority to purchase the firearm.

[Christel]

No deposit nor full payment can be taken for a firearm without the relevant slot.

[Sim G]

Disagree. A sale or transfer is not complete till the purchaser may "treat as their own" ie sell on, modify, gift or destroy. This can only happen when "transferred" to the purchaser that gives him these "rights". Payment in either part or full does not constitute this alone. When then transferred on to his certificate, sale complete. Transfer to him without authority, offence.

Paying a deposit, either whole or in part gains that individual a proprietary interest, not sole ownership rights. Likewise, should he take the gun without appropriate authority he also commits an offence.

This law was drafted at a time when the country was awash with undocumented firearms and shotguns. It was not designed to prevent commerce. You say it's not down to interpretation but that's exactly what has happened. Deposits do not constitute transfer or sale.

Applying the same logic, will you show a customer a rifle or shotgun that don't have authority to possess by virtue of their certificate? For that is exactly what you would be doing using the same interpretation as you can't take a deposit. You would have transferred (given) a firearm to someone without the authorisation to acquire (however short a time)....

No, s3 is not for that. And given some of the appalling advice I've heard others have been given by the BASC et al, I certainly wouldn't hang my hat on their interpretations.

[Christel]

It is a guidance from the police and as such I would not like to try that on in a court of law.

[Sim G]

Where as I would be happy to take it to court all day long!

And I know I was disparaging about advice offered by organisations, but they are the experts compared to some of my colleagues!!!

I’d never tell you how you should run your business as I’m not a businessman. But by adopting such a policy I can see how you’d be hamstringing yourself! And as I said, if you don’t take a deposit because of “unlawful possession”, don’t hand a gun to someone without the correct authority either.

But, as it’s a hobby of mine, I’ll drop the Home Office and CPS a line and see what they have to say. Could be interesting....

[Ovenpaa]

I for one would be interested to hear what they say. For the record we will not accept any form of deposit on a firearm if the potential owner cannot demonstrate lawful reason to purchase the firearm.

As an aside, the one that I am always wary of is section 11(4) for ammunition and firearm sales and if there is any doubt I decline the sale and will advise firearms licensing. We also always forward a copy of the 11(4) authority to the police as they no provision for it on their licensing system, in other words, they have no idea who is holding an S11(40 as they are issued by the Showman's Guild and the NSRA who do not appear to actually tell anyone!

[Alpha1]

Spent the day in my shed. Actually, it's not a shed its a brick building with a concrete floor more of a workshop with electric,s, and heating, etc. Just wish it was a bit bigger. Anyway, I turned a neck bushing and decapping die.
To morrows, job is turning a micrometer seating die both will be used with my arbor press. I will post some pics when I'm done. I bought a body die I don't have the tooling to make one of those and that's my reloading set up complete. I used offcuts out of scrap bins for the metal so saved me quite a bit of money. I really need something better to cut my steel to length. I'm pap at parting off on the lathe.
I was hoping to start reloading for it but apparently, the Starline cases I ordered are on backorder so God knows when they will arrive.
I desperately need an accurate measuring system for the lathe I think the next purchase is going to be a digital readout system(DRO). I still have another couple of rifles I don't shoot anymore to offload its hard work nowadays selling stuff.

hmm whats next Lets see if I can find a mechanical hacksaw on the bay.

[Alpha1]

Dies are done I now have a neck bushing decapping die and a micrometer bullet seating die. Once the body die arrives that's me set up. I'll post pics tomorrow its time to wash up and relax.

[Dellboy]

I for one would be interested to hear what they say. For the record we will not accept any form of deposit on a firearm if the potential owner cannot demonstrate lawful reason to purchase the firearm.

As an aside, the one that I am always wary of is section 11(4) for ammunition and firearm sales and if there is any doubt I decline the sale and will advise firearms licensing. We also always forward a copy of the 11(4) authority to the police as they no provision for it on their licensing system, in other words, they have no idea who is holding an S11(40 as they are issued by the Showman's Guild and the NSRA who do not appear to actually tell anyone!

Essex regard selling to a exemption certificate section 11(4) a big no no and regard selling anything to someone carrying one will make you a member of their naughty boys list .