Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

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All handloading data posted on Full-Bore UK from 23/2/2021 must reference the published pressure tested data it was sourced from, posts without such verification will be removed.
Any existing data without such a reference should be treated as suspect and not used.

Use reloading information posted here at your own risk. This forum (http://www.full-bore.co.uk) is not responsible for any property damage or personal injury as a consequence of using reloading data posted here, the information is individual members findings and observations only. Always verify the load data and be absolutely sure your firearm can handle the load, especially older ones. If in doubt start low and work your way up.
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1066
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#21 Post by 1066 »

I think you're right to load the .357 cases - I know plenty of people shoot .38 spec and say they have no trouble, but if you're loading your own and .357 cases are certainly not in short supply, then why would you. I don't use Ramshot so couldn't really tell you about velocity, however it's quite possible that where you have been using loads up to the maximum this has caused leading leading to your accuracy problems.

Most accurate revolver .38/357 loads with lead bullets seem to come in the 7-800fps area - 3.4gn with a 158gn lead bullet should put you somewhere about right, I would expect to see 6 shot groups around 1.5"-2" or less from a rested position at 25 yards.
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#22 Post by dromia »

Revolvers can be a bit of a bugger.

Firstly you need to do some measurements to ensure that the chambers are larger than the groove diameter of the barrel and also the dimension of the forcing cone nearest the barrel. If things are as they should be then there should be no crud build up if you are using proper lead bullets.

Secondly. The bullet should be at least two thousands larger than groove diameter and you should use the largest bullet that you can chamber. The bullet should made of soft lead, ideally pure lead with a smidgeon of tin for castability no more than two percent. Or pure lead swaged bullets.

Best to use a black powder lube and avoid petroleum based lubes especially liquid alox tumble liubes as they will combine with the powder/primer residue to form the hard ring fouling you are getting.

With the above bullets gas checks should not be necessary even at top magnum velocities.

You should never mix condom and cast/swaged bullets. Condom bullets leave the worst of all fouling, copper. This should be removed completely before shooting cast as copper fouling just begets more fouling and strips lead.

Get your bullets and lube right and you will have no need for lead removers.

Back in the day my Colt Python consumed a steady diet of 0.360", 174 gn pure lead, Keith semi-wad cutters bullets at top velocities and only needed a push through or two with and Ed's Red dampened patch.
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#23 Post by dromia »

[quote="Andy" The bullets are shop bought gm lead, so pre lube'd, i don't use gas checks.[/quote]

These are hard cast bullets with absolutely useless and damaging lube and you will get nothing but fouling and bother with such bullets

You must first get good bullet fit with cast, so take the measurements in my previous post.
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#24 Post by Andy »

dromia wrote:[quote="Andy" The bullets are shop bought gm lead, so pre lube'd, i don't use gas checks.

These are hard cast bullets with absolutely useless and damaging lube and you will get nothing but fouling and bother with such bullets

You must first get good bullet fit with cast, so take the measurements in my previous post.

ok thankyou, when i'm back at work i can measure up properly.
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#25 Post by Andy »

1066 wrote:I think you're right to load the .357 cases - I know plenty of people shoot .38 spec and say they have no trouble, but if you're loading your own and .357 cases are certainly not in short supply, then why would you. I don't use Ramshot so couldn't really tell you about velocity, however it's quite possible that where you have been using loads up to the maximum this has caused leading leading to your accuracy problems.

Most accurate revolver .38/357 loads with lead bullets seem to come in the 7-800fps area - 3.4gn with a 158gn lead bullet should put you somewhere about right, I would expect to see 6 shot groups around 1.5"-2" or less from a rested position at 25 yards.
well i've ordered that cleaning kit you put the link to, i'll give it another clean when it arrives. Then once we can get back to shooting i'll try some different loads in the 357 cases.
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#26 Post by Alpha1 »

You need to look into finding an alternative bullet supplier or cast your own. The club sells lead ingots.
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#27 Post by Andy »

Alpha1 wrote:You need to look into finding an alternative bullet supplier or cast your own. The club sells lead ingots.

yeah thanks Dave, i just aint got time for that. It's hard enough reloading for all the different calibres i've got now. I will try to find a better quality bullet maybe, but for now that new lead cleaning thingy looks like it'll cure the problem i'm having at the moment.
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#28 Post by channel12 »

Way in the day I bought a pre-owned S&W .357/.38spl revolver and it seemed the previous owner(s) had only run with .38spl. There were rings cut in the cylinders caused by flame erosion, it wasn't crud build up before anyone suggests that. I only ran .38spl loads in .357 cases as it seemed most of my club did.
I used GM hard cast bullets without any problems and when the revolver was replaced by the Marlin I've continued to run with GM hard cast despite what the resident guru says. Only running light loads so no gas checks required but your mileage may vary as they say.
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#29 Post by FredB »

I don't shoot 357 /38 any more, but back in the day, I must have loaded approaching 100.000 rounds. At the time of the hand in, I had 3 revovers in 357 and they all saw a lot of use.
The hard vs soft argument is complicated. For precision 20yd target shooting, the favoured bullet was a 148grn hollow based wadcutter. These were swaged and soft. When the 1500 discipline took off, the same bullet was favoured. If more power was needed or wanted , then the HBWC was useless. The heavier charge would blow the centre out of the bullet, leaving the outer ring in the barrel. If you used home cast wadcutters, then, as the charge increased, the effect of the forcing cone in the barrel was to compress and expand the bullet, causing a build up of lead. This gave rise to gadgets such as the "Lewis Lead Remover" kit which was a brass gauze scraper system.
Most home casters solved the problem by moving to harder bullets. A favourite source of lead was scrap wheel weights: these contained antimony and were very hard. The Lyman reloading handbook describes how to make "NO2" alloy based on wheel weightys. Modern wheel weights are based on zinc and useless for casting. For very high power loads, suitable for long range pistol shooting at ranges up to 300yds, gas checks were often used, or copper jacket bullets.
I used a lot of range scrap and developed a simple hardness tester which i still use today.
Conclusion: slow---soft is best. Fast----a little harder but correct bullet diameter is the key. Most commercially manufactured lead bullets are far harder than needed and, if the diameter is less than that of the barrel grooves, will cause leading. I don't understand why this is so, as the metal added to the alloy to harden it costs a lot more than the lead itself.
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Re: Trouble reloading for my chiappa rhino

#30 Post by Daryll »

I'd agree with Channel 12.... I've always used .357 cases in my guns, right back to when I had a S&W 686, for this precise reason.

Back in those days I used the 148gn Bingley HBWC, but since we've moved to rifles and LBRs I've always used GM Hardcast bullets.

I found that the 158gn TC's (Truncated Cones) worked best... if I use the RNFP in my Marlin I may as well use a shotgun!

I see no signs of leading, on the (very) few times I've cleaned it, but I only shoot up to 25m, so light loads only.
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