Vihtavuori Powder and Loads for 44.40?

[Lever357]

Viht Reloading Guide from 2019 has a section dedicated to smokeless loads for cowboy action shooting which covers 38 special, 357 magnum, 44 S&W special, 44 rem magnum and 45 Colt - but no 44-40

[Bryan Austin]

I had an interest in this powder a few years ago but never could find any in the US nor could I find any data. Here, I guess, Trail Boss is basically the same thing. Although "bulky" = "expensive", it is good for new guys to help prevent an accidental double charge since a double charge will overflow the case.

Bullseye and Unique have been around since right before the 1900's, However...Winchester factory loads for both revolver and rifle used Dupont No. 2, then Sharpshooter before switching to a pistol ball powder by the mid 1960's, then to a pistol flake powder by 1979. Rifle performance suffered at once great distances with the loss of Sharpshooter powder and plummeted even further with the flake powder.

I prefer Trail Boss for CAS on my progressive press.
Unique for normal pistol loads and Reloder 7 for normal 1,350fps rifle loads, then IMR4227 for hot, group II strong action rifles.

I'd still like to try some of that Vihtavuori powder!!!!!!

[dromia]

Vihtavuori's N32C Tin Star is their equivalent of Trail Boss without Trails bosses rip-off pricing for a "bulky" powder.

Tin Star is a fine powder for the 44-40 but then I find most fast to medium pistol powders work well it is such and accommodating cartridge.

Red Dot is the original "bulky" fast pistol powder, so nothing new under the sun.

Over the decades I have tried nearly every powder available in the 44-40, many of which are no longer with us, and after all that my powder of choice for the 44-40 is still Swiss black powder loaded on an RCBS Piggy Back progressive.

My Uberti 1860 Henry is a hungry animal.

[Bryan Austin]

Vihtavuori's N32C Tin Star is their equivalent of Trail Boss without Trails bosses rip-off pricing for a "bulky" powder.

Tin Star is a fine powder for the 44-40 but then I find most fast to medium pistol powders work well it is such and accommodating cartridge.

Red Dot is the original "bulky" fast pistol powder, so nothing new under the sun.

Over the decades I have tried nearly every powder available in the 44-40, many of which are no longer with us, and after all that my powder of choice for the 44-40 is still Swiss black powder loaded on an RCBS Piggy Back progressive.

My Uberti 1860 Henry is a hungry animal.

For Rifles
Swiss always gave me the best black powder results, when using black powder. Black powder isn't really cheap either compared to grains/volume used per cartridge. I need to test this out some day and make a spreadsheet on cost!!!

Much of the following information contains data in excess of SAAMI's 11,000psi max pressures for the standard 44-40 loads

Not sure what the big deal is over what the first bulky pistol powder was, maybe I can learn something new there. What I do know is that chamber pressures can reach "max" way before original velocities (1,325fps) can be reached (if velocity is the shooter's goal) when using fast burning pistol powders in rifles....and sometimes even in revolvers for the 44-40 cartridges. A "case-capacity load" (where the bullet sits on top of the powder without compressing the powder) of Reloder 7 (mid-range rifle powder) with a 200gr cast LRNFP bullet gave me 1,658fps out of a 20" MGM 1 1/4" diameter barrel I use for testing @ only 13,602psi while a "case-capacity load" of Trail Boss with same bullet gave me only 1,250fps @ an unacceptable 15,182psi. Comparing that to a Lyman published MAX load of Unique for Group II rifles produced 1,469fps @ a high 17,837psi and not even a "case-capacity load". For testing, 12gr of Unique was used with same bullet and produced 1,635fps at a staggering 21,786psi which could be in excess of 30,000cup.

Reloder 7 leaves unburnt "skeletons" in the barrel and in the chamber/action but is less messy than BP and doesn't have to be cleaned if you don't like cleaning after every shoot or so.

For revolvers, Red Dot adn Bullseye are certainly very close.

Here is some info from a friend who loved Bullseye.

First Group of Mild loads which should be safe in any .44-40 rifle or revolver:

200-grain cast lead bullet: (Accurate 43-200Q, wheeweights, .430")
15.4 grains #2400 1178 fps in Marlin 1894S with 20" barrel
6.5 grains Bullseye 1142 fps in Marlin 1894S with 24" barrel
5.0 grains Red Dot 894 fps in Marlin 1894S with 20" barrel - Do Not Reduce
7.4 grains Red Dot 1203 fps in Marlin 1894S with 20" barrel - Max., for Colt clones and link locked levers
24.5 grains Alliant RL7 1359 fps Marlin 20", 901 fps Ruger 5-1/2" - based on old Hercules Data "should" not exceed SAAMI pressure.

THE FOLLOWING LOADS ARE FOR Winchester 92, Marlin 1894S and RUGER revolvers only:

200-grain Remington JSP .427", Starline cases, Rem. 2-1/2 primers, OAL 1.60"
8.4 grains Bullseye 1264 fps Marlin 20", 1000 fps 5-1/2" Ruger

200-grain Hornady XTP .430", Starline cases, Rem.2-1/2 primers, OAL 1.60"
8.4 grains Bullseye 1197 fps Marlin 20", 1036 fps Ruger 5-1/2"

200-grain cast lead bullet (Accurate 43-200Q Wheelweights, .430", OAL 1.60")
7.2 grains Bullseye 1284 fps Marlin 20", 967 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
7.8 grains Red Dot 1248 fps Marlin 20", 1023 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
8.3 grains Red Dot 1317 fps Marlin 20", 1023 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
8.3 grains Red Dot 1317 fps Marlin 20", 1073 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
26 grains Alliant RL7 1420 fps Marlin 20", 1050 fps Ruger 5-1/2"

230-grain cast lead bullet, (Accurate 43-230G, wheelweights, .430", OAL 1.61")
8.3 grains Red Dot 1254 fps Marlin 20", 1027 fps Ruger 5-1/2"
24.5 grains Alliant RL7 1355 fps Marlin 20", 957 fps Ruger 5-1/2"

These loads were safe in my Marlin rifle and Ruger revolver.

I do not recommend their use in other firearms.

Use this data at your own risk.

Since I have never used Red Dot, I have no way of comparing volume (bulk) in comparison to Bullseye. Maybe one of you guys can share that information.

[dromia]

For Rifles
Swiss always gave me the best black powder results, when using black powder. Black powder isn't really cheap either compared to grains/volume used per cartridge. I need to test this out some day and make a spreadsheet on cost!!!

Hell's teeth if I had to worry about that much penny pinching in my shooting then I wouldn't bother and I am in no ways a rich man. Things cost what they cost and the best is rarely the cheapest. If you are using rip of Trail Boss then you cannot be that miserly about the costs. My guns deserve the best in my book and BP gives that as well as being in the spirit of the original.

44-40. pre 1873 lever action rifles (anachronism I know) and black powder, marriages made in heaven. Phwoarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[Bryan Austin]

For Rifles
Swiss always gave me the best black powder results, when using black powder. Black powder isn't really cheap either compared to grains/volume used per cartridge. I need to test this out some day and make a spreadsheet on cost!!!

Hell's teeth if I had to worry about that much penny pinching in my shooting then I wouldn't bother and I am in no ways a rich man. Things cost what they cost and the best is rarely the cheapest. If you are using rip of Trail Boss then you cannot be that miserly about the costs. My guns deserve the best in my book and BP gives that as well as being in the spirit of the original.

44-40. pre 1873 lever action rifles (anachronism I know) and black powder, marriages made in heaven. Phwoarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Oh no, not at all. I use 40gr Swiss BP, 6.4gr of Trail Boss, 2400, IMR and H-4198, IMR-4227 and other powders that require a large charge...LOL It's called the bottomless money pit!!! Ain't it fun?

The 44-40 was made for rifle powder, not pistol powder....unless it's used in a pistol