6.5 Creedmoor Load Development

[BLZeebub]

Morning All,

Sorry for the long post...

I'm new to the reloading game but looking to develop a load for my Bergara B14 HMR 24" 6.5 Creed using 140gr Hornady ELD-M's. I currently have the choice of Vit N150 or N160 and have a set of Redding Premium Deluxe Dies. I've also got CCI-200 primers.

My starting point was:
32.2gr N150, COAL 2.844" (Source Vihtavuori)

Whilst i didn't chrono that it worked ok at 100yds. I also tried 32.4, 32.6 and 32.8 with a COAL of 2.842. IIRC this measured at about 6 thou off the lands.

The whole thing got sidelined for about a year and in the meantime i spent time trying to sort my 22LR and came across the OBT method using Quickload so thought i'd give it a try.

I have a choice of both Hornady and S&B pre-fired cases that i have capacity measured to refine the QL data taking an average of 5 cases each. So far i've stuck with the Hornady cases to minimise variables.

The OBT 24" nodes i can get to with plugging in the data are 6,7 & 8 so with 8 being the only one that i can get to with the Vit max load data for a 140gr that seems very conservative based on most people seeming to be at the 40gr powder range. This gives me 34.4gr for a theoretical 1.515ms timing and 2356fps and nowhere near the pressure limits.

The first three rounds showed no sign of pressure issues and through a clean barrel were horizontally level with a 1.5" even spread centre to centre. I made up another three the same and chrono'd them with a labradar at 2532, 2523, 2523 with all 3 shots lining up with the second two from the first run. As this was quite different to QL i adjusted the burn rate to get the theoretical fps to 2525. This raised the burn rate from 0.545 to 0.67! This also pushed the pressure into the high yellow zone and almost red.

That seems a little odd to me - although that does almost line up with node 6 with a timing of 1.311 vs the ideal of 1.308.

I did another load at 34.5gr to line up with 1.308 but that didn't group quite as well but with the recently clean barrel and i know i definitely pulled 1 shot that's not a good guide.

On paper N160 will be in the low 40gr region but with the massive adjustment to the N150 and with a lot of people around the 2700fps area i'm wondering if there's something missing.

I do plan to check the labradar against some factory loads and a friend is bringing one down to do some back-to backs so that might solve it but thought i'd ask.

Cheers
Nat

[dromia]

The forum rules require that all hand load data shows the source of the pressure tested data for the load.

"I had a very experienced friend give me a starting point which was:
32.2gr N150, COAL 2.844"" This is not acceptable and taking loads from an unverified source is very bad handloading practice and will not be promoted here,

You should be using verified, pressure tested, published data, taking other peoples loads without cross reference the source is recipe for disaster.

What handloading manuals and published load data do you have?

Show the proper source of the data you have put up here or the post will be removed.

Also read and understand the forum rules before posting, if in doubt ask the administrators.

[BLZeebub]

The forum rules require that all hand load data shows the source of the pressure tested data for the load.

"I had a very experienced friend give me a starting point which was:
32.2gr N150, COAL 2.844"" This is not acceptable and taking loads from an unverified source is very bad handloading practice and will not be promoted here,

You should be using verified, pressure tested, published data, taking other peoples loads without cross reference the source is recipe for disaster.

What handloading manuals and published load data do you have?

Show the proper source of the data you have put up here or the post will be removed.

Also read and understand the forum rules before posting, if in doubt ask the administrators.

Apologies - the original load data was derived from the Hornady Loading Manual over a year ago but i don't have access to that.

The Vit online data for 6.5 Creedmoor doesn't specifically list the 140gr ELD-M's but two other 140gr bullets have a range of 31.3 - 35.3 and 30.2 - 35.5

Is that ok?

Regards
Nathan

[dromia]

Thank you, please be more circumspect about your sources in future.

I have edited your post to remove the mal-practice.

[dromia]

I would also suggest you read "Checking for signs of pressure" sticky on this forum as statements like "showed no sign of pressure issues" are totally meaningless unless you have a creditable way of measuring pressure and again referencing it is good practice

[BLZeebub]

I would also suggest you read "Checking for signs of pressure" sticky on this forum as statements like "showed no sign of pressure issues" are totally meaningless unless you have a creditable way of measuring pressure and again referencing it is good practice

The fired primers look ok and not flat or pierced, the bolt lift is easy, recoil vs a factory load is no more and the case itself looks ok. The necks look slightly dirtier after firing which from reading i believe suggests the pressure may actually be a bit low?

I will try measuring the fired cases when i get back home as i still have some the aren't prepped for reloading and some factory to compare.

Cheers
Nat

[dromia]

"The fired primers look ok and not flat or pierced, the bolt lift is easy, recoil vs a factory load is no more and the case itself looks ok"

That is what I mean by meaningless, none of those "indicators" singly or together, are reliable indicators of pressure.

[WelshShooter]

I'm sorry for coming across as a bit thick, but what exactly is your question? Are you concerned that when you adjust the burn rate in QL to match your measured velocity that QL informs you that the load is over pressure?

The barrel material, length and chamber can affect pressure/velocity which you may not be accounted for in the QL model. Have you ever fired any factory rounds and chronod them? It may be worth doing that and compare to the ammunition velocity specs of same barrel length to see what the discrepancy is, as that may help answer some of your questions.

Regarding primers as a sign of pressure, this may point towards something else and could be a red herring as such. A few years ago I had a donor 308win Remington 700 rebarelled and chambered for 6.5x47 Lapua. I was getting primer catering and even pierced primers even when I was following published Vihtavouri load data without deviation. The problematic primers weren't related to over pressure, but rather due to too much clearance between the firing pin and bolt face (this is quite a common issue with this calibre from donor actions for large rifle primer calibres). I had the firing pin hole bushed and the firing pin reshaped by a reputable person so that primers are striked correctly, and there's no clearance to cause primers to flow into the firing pin hole. After that, the problem went away, so issues with primers may indicate other problems and not just over pressure.

[phaedra1106]

Viht data https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-da ... rtridge=95

I use their top load of N150 under a 139gr Scenar loaded to 2.717" COAL, in my Bergara BMP and Tikka Tac A1, both consistently give sub 1/3" groups at 100yds if I do my part.

As for cases, I've found the Hornady are pretty poor, primer pockets loosening after a couple of firings. The S&B seem pretty good, onto 5 firings with no problems.

My case of choice is the Starline LRP an excellent quality case at a sensible price.

[BLZeebub]

Viht data https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-da ... rtridge=95

I use their top load of N150 under a 139gr Scenar loaded to 2.717" COAL, in my Bergara BMP and Tikka Tac A1, both consistently give sub 1/3" groups at 100yds if I do my part.

As for cases, I've found the Hornady are pretty poor, primer pockets loosening after a couple of firings. The S&B seem pretty good, onto 5 firings with no problems.

My case of choice is the Starline LRP an excellent quality case at a sensible price.

Good to know and thanks for the useful info - a swap to the S&B cases may be a good idea based on your experience.

I had hoped to get some pointers as to whether the QL burn rate adjustment was normal as it seemed extreme but hey-ho.

Thanks for the additional information on pressure signs - i'll bear that in mind.

Cheers
Nathan