Sweden

[Polchraine]

I am not really interested in C-19 numbers or population density or land mass...in my opinion Sweden just left their citizens to their own fate. No responsibility towards the Swedish people.

No responsibility towards the surrounding countries either.

I know people in Denmark who are horrified about the Swedish approach.

Have to agree, the point being, it is only low because of population spread.

Stockholm County - so the city and surrounding area has a population of 2.344m and 2366 deaths giving a rate of 1009 which is way above London for example.

There are no figures that I can find for deaths in the City, so assume that the surrounding area is similar to the remainder of the country where the teh rate is around 400, so approx 560 occurred there leaving 1800 in the city of 988,000 people. That gives a rate of approx 1800 per million.

That is a rough analysis, which may confirm that they were wrong.

[Christel]

Sweden will never admit they were wrong in their approach to C-19.

[Pippin89]

I am not really interested in C-19 numbers or population density or land mass...in my opinion Sweden just left their citizens to their own fate. No responsibility towards the Swedish people.

No responsibility towards the surrounding countries either.

I know people in Denmark who are horrified about the Swedish approach.

I work with a Swedish guy and he is horrified too! The thing that Sweden did give us was evidence of what happens in that event. The whole world were looking at Sweden as they were the only ones doing it.

[Sandgroper]

I have spent many night shifts (in between looking after patients) looking at this and I don't believe any country has got it right...it very much depends on how you interpret the data and even then the data could be suspect. I'll admit that I haven't looked at population density but comparing countries with a similar populations and Sweden is neither better or worse off.

I will, however, applaud Sweden for doing something different because if we all do the same thing, how do we know if it's the right or wrong approach? I also applaud Anders Tegnell for being honest enough to admit that he doesn't had all the answers and has made mistakes and underestimated the impact of the Swedish handling of C19 would have, especially in Care homes.

There is no easy answer to C19, a lot of people look enviously at NZ but they may have simply delayed their outbreak or be facing long term international isolation but it too early to say...even the WHO went from vilifying the Swedish approach to saying it's likely the best long term model for other countries to follow.

The simple fact is that we are all in unknown territory when it comes to how to handle C19 and we won't know who was right or wrong until long after it (or if it) has passed. I personally believe that C19 is something that we'll just have to live with for the long term, much like C.Diff, Norovius, MRSA and so on. I am not holding out for a vaccine or any such cure. I certainly don't have any faith in long term public compliance with social distancing, face masks etc. My gut feeling is that this will be a tough winter...

[Laurie]

.
................. I will, however, applaud Sweden for doing something different because if we all do the same thing, how do we know if it's the right or wrong approach? I also applaud Anders Tegnell for being honest enough to admit that he doesn't had all the answers and has made mistakes and underestimated the impact of the Swedish handling of C19 would have, especially in Care homes.

..........The simple fact is that we are all in unknown territory when it comes to how to handle C19 and we won't know who was right or wrong until long after it (or if it) has passed. I personally believe that C19 is something that we'll just have to live with for the long term, much like C.Diff, Norovius, MRSA and so on. I am not holding out for a vaccine or any such cure. I certainly don't have any faith in long term public compliance with social distancing, face masks etc. My gut feeling is that this will be a tough winter...

I agree 100%. We're approaching the end of Act 1 still of what will be a three, four or who knows how many act production. Who has had the 'best' or 'worst' approach won't be known for a long time. And do we have a full lockdown every time there's a new widespread wave of this curse? The new French PM has already said that France will not have another national lockdown come what may as neither the economy nor the population's mental and physical health will stand continuing repeated shutdowns of normal life. Nobody says this here, but I bet that's HMG's bottom line if (when?) we have the next wave in the winter. Like you, I have NO faith in an effective vaccine anytime soon. I think it might be something to do with growing up in the 50s and 60s when a Sunday newspaper leitmotif was features announcing a common cold (another coronavirus) vaccine was 'imminent'. Even where there are virus vaccines as for flu, they are often less than 50% effective, sometimes not even 25%. Add in what national polling says that at least one in three Brits say they wouldn't accept a Covid-19 vaccine if/when on offer and this is another 'sunny uplands' / pot of gold, end of the rainbow / jam tomorrow bit of PR garbage from a government that has promised 'world class' whatevers right from the beginning of this saga, not to mention lockdown was going to last three weeks.

[Pete]

They haven't produced a fully effective vaccine for the other coronavirus infections yet, and they've been trying for years.
I just wish they'd be completely honest, put their hands up and say "We haven't a clue how this is going to pan out in the end, but based on what we know so far, here's what you can to do to minimise your risk of infection", and just let us get on with it.
Instead, they run around like headless chickens issuing different and sometimes contradictory "guidelines" which, it then transpires, you can be fined for ignoring.............this isn't government, it's a bad joke.

Pete

[Les]

They haven't produced a fully effective vaccine for the other coronavirus infections yet, and they've been trying for years.
I just wish they'd be completely honest, put their hands up and say "We haven't a clue how this is going to pan out in the end, but based on what we know so far, here's what you can to do to minimise your risk of infection", and just let us get on with it.
Instead, they run around like headless chickens issuing different and sometimes contradictory "guidelines" which, it then transpires, you can be fined for ignoring.............this isn't government, it's a bad joke.

Pete

To be fair, Pete, that's more or less what a lot of the talking heads have been saying, but when some people blatantly ignore any of the advice being given, then different measures need to be taken.

NO government, anywhere, can claim victory over C19. There has been a lot more honesty regarding infection rates here in the UK compared to many other countries, but nobody has claimed that they have it fully under control.

When pubs were reopened, many people went totally apesh!t and totally disregarded any guidance. The government consists of 365 people. It's down to the other +/- 70 million people in this country to do their part too, which the vast majority of them have done.

[Pete]

Think about it......a disease which you might have and pass on, with catastrophic effect for some people, and without suffering any symptoms whatsoever yourself.
I can't see any way of controlling it in a country of nearly 70 million people, many of whom, the majority even, routinely behave like they've got less than half a brain...........

Pete

[GeeRam]

Sweden is 1.9 times larger than the UK, but it only has a population of +/- 10 million, so it's hardly surprising that their death rate is lower.

If anything, comparing like-for-like, it is considerably higher than the UK, which is why comparisons like this are totally pointless.

^THIS^

As has been said it is difficult to compare, but if you ask me, it looks like Sweden got it very wrong!

I saw a interview with their senior micro-biology scientist guy a few weeks ago, where he admitted that they might have got it wrong.

[GeeRam]

The simple fact is that we are all in unknown territory when it comes to how to handle C19 and we won't know who was right or wrong until long after it (or if it) has passed. I personally believe that C19 is something that we'll just have to live with for the long term, much like C.Diff, Norovius, MRSA and so on. I am not holding out for a vaccine or any such cure. I certainly don't have any faith in long term public compliance with social distancing, face masks etc. My gut feeling is that this will be a tough winter...

^This.

I think the best we can hope for is finding better ways of treating the severe cases of it that will result in fewer people dying from it.....but, there's just too many people on this planet now to eliminate naturally by normal quarantine methods a virus that needs to live in a living body to survive.