Killing of Swans

[Chuck]

There's no need to licence ANY gun, that's just asking for trouble.. Just hammer the fckwits who abuse them...Never ask for more control over your guns...you WILL end up losing them.

[dromia]

There's good eating on a swan.

[Mike357]

Good call Barney.

[Dougan]

I couldn't read the article, as it is 'no longer available'.

One possibility is that it could be an angler. Personally (speaking as an angler) I think that fishermens' contributions to the health of Britain's waterways are very significant - Apart from all the money that the Environment Ageny raise from rod licences (which goes to maintaining waterways), fishing clubs do a lot of work (both with contractors and member volunteers) to rivers and lakes. Also fishermen act well as the eyes and ears for the EA, RSPCB and RSPCA. However there are some who take their sport so seriously, that they would kill any animal who spoils it :evil: The problem with swans, ducks and geese, is that they will dive down and eat the bait you've just thrown in (there are carpers that will spend £50+ on bait just for a few days) - I never leave my bait shallow enough that this can happen, as I don't want some poor bird hooking it self, but some people just don't give a s***, and only care about catching fish.

I fish a beautiful estate lake, where there is amazing wildlife (a massive list including water voles, grass snakes, green woodpeckers and kingfishers) - and personally if I've seen a grass snake glide across the water under my rod tips, I don't mind if I didn't get a bite all day. One day I saw an Otter which had come up from a nearby river in the lake - when I told the angler in the next swim, he started ranting about how they are 'fish killers' (I know they do), would disturb the fishing, and that the bailif shoud shoot it...I had to just bite my lip and walk away :x

I can't believe how often people do kill animals just because they are an inconvienence. I'm quite obsessive about the back lawn (many hours work), but wouldn't think of harming the foxes (the buggers just love the beetle grubs) and squirels (my fault for supplying them with nuts) that come and dig bits of it up :roll:

Personally I think that unless you are a farmer, small-holder or have a vermin problem - then there are only two valid reasons for shooting an animal....either you are about to eat it...or it is about to eat you :!:

Also, sorry Chuck, I'm with you about being careful not to give reasons for further restrictions, but I do think airguns should be licenced - as there are missused way to often.

[Ovenpaa]

Also, sorry Chuck, I'm with you about being careful not to give reasons for further restrictions, but I do think airguns should be licenced - as there are missused way to often.

We are in a minority on this. :(

There are two sides to the vermin control issue, I could never understand why people would want to shoot foxes or rabbits then I saw the damage rabbits cause to crops and young trees, foxes at lambing time are a huge issue and can do a huge amount of costly damage over the space of a few days. I was talking to a game keeper yesterday who expects to loose half his birds by the time the season has started. We could of course question why people would want to shoot game birds, but then people could question why I choose to shoot at a tiny little target 5/8 of a mile away or use a motorbike instead of a bicycle to commute on. Or I could ask why people spend so much time watching football. One thing for sure is many many people depend on both vermin control and shooting game as single source of income and it brings revenue to estates that allows them to be maintained and controlled.

As an aside I read an article in the local paper a few years ago about a keen local angler who was fed up with Cormorants took his shotgun down to the river bank and potted a few. That got him a significant fine and loss of his SGC rather quickly.. He probably thought he was doing the right thing as well.

[ptheta]

It seems like quite a few people on here are quite anti air rifle. I think that it's a shame that there's not a little more solidarity amongst shooters of different disciplines. There are an awful lot of people in this country who shoot air rifles legitimately and one of the big attractions is that they can do so without all the hassle, actual or perceived, of going via the licensing and firearms route. They're also a good feeder for firearms shooting. I know several people that started with air rifles before moving onto shotgun and rifles, myself included.

There are number of regional and national leagues shooting in this country and it would be a great shame to see them all destroyed because of the activities of a few criminals. Those guys in the gimp suits you see in the Lord Roberts centre are just the tip of the iceberg! There's also HFT and FT leagues going on all over the country. If you've never tried HFT you really should give it a go sometime. Once you get over the lack of bang when you squeeze the trigger it's great fun and really quite challenging.

Since the VCR bill, restrictions on air rifles have increased quite a bit and regardless of that the activities being described were already illegal. You don't prevent someone committing a crime by making a criminal act more criminal. Prosecute criminals and leave the law abiding alone.

[Christel]

I am certainly not of the impression that there are people on this forum who are anti air rifle. Far from it.

The only thing I have seen is that some forum members are of the opinion, that like other bang sticks, air rifles should be licensed.

That has as far as I know nothing to do with making life difficult for or being against legit air rifle shooters, they are simply making a point that air rifles can cause as much damage as many licensed rifle calibres can and therefore should be licensed.

As you pointed out all rifle shooters regardless of calibre, licensed or unlicensed, should stick together in the shooting world. It is a small world after all and not always very well perceived "in the real world"

[dodgyrog]

Licensing doesn't stop anything! Let the punishment fit the crime.

[ptheta]

Christel, I don't mean to say that the forum as a whole is anti air gun but I do think that theme is prevalent to at least a degree in this thread. Am I wrong to consider this just a little anti air gun?

Another good reason to licence these bloody things.

Perhaps I'm being a little unfair to repeat that when I suspect it was an emotional response to the act of violence against the swans. I never got to see the original article as it's disappeared now so I don't know the specifics of this case.

The reason that I'm am firmly against licensing of sub 12 ft/lb air guns (and 6 ft/lb pistols) is that I have no doubt that it will effectively kill off the sport in this country. Yes, a small minority will remain but most will just drift off considering it to just be too much trouble and expense. Our hobby is expensive and not everyone can afford it. I know I couldn't have done so a few years ago. After all is said and done you can get started in air gun shooting for less than the price of a gun cabinet.

This might seem rather convenient timing but I swear it's true. Last Friday evening I stopped in the co-op for some milk and a chap asked me where he could take his sons to introduce them to rifle shooting (I was wearing my Shield Shooting Centre/Help for Heroes T-Shirt). He didn't want to join a club and make a hobby of it; he just wanted to take his kids out for a treat. His options were to wait months for the next NRA open day, go to an expensive clay day somewhere, or get an air rifle and go to an open shoot. Contrast that with Canada (just my personal experience), where you can turn up with your photo id on a commercial range and have a go under supervision any time you like. My opinion is that there are far too many barriers to shooting in this country and for us to be in favour of more is akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.

[Robin128]

Responsible hunters kill to keep vermin under control...otherwise crops and flocks will not yield what was planned.

Responsible hunters kill for the meat to eat.

Others that kill for the sake of it...well, something loose upstairs I'm afraid.

:)

As you will know I do some vermin control in my spare time,,I had a call a couple of days ago from a lady, who owns a cottage which has a large mill pond beside it, I think by the sounds of it she rents it out as a holiday let,,,,well she has two canada geese on the pond which have produced 6 goslings,,,the lawns are covered in s***,,and the parents are very protective of their young and charge at people staying there,,,she wanted me to come and get rid of the geese all 8 of them,,,,I refused whilst they had young their,, she said but they will come back next year if we dont dispose of them now,,, I said I will not shoot them while they have young there, and told her to wait a few weeks the young will fledge and go their own way,, and if they come back next year to call me and we can do something before they breed again.....
my standards,, was I right, or was I wrong???

It's your call, Barney.

:)