Portuguese Mauser 1904/39 - Dating?

[johnson3392]

Good evening,

I will be soon be acquiring a Portuguese-Verguerio 7.92 Mauser 1904/39 pattern in decent shooting condition with an all matching serial number of B852. It has a King Carlos cypher on the undated receiver. There is a wealth of historical info out there but very little on manufacturing dates. As far as I know Portuguese Mausers with a G prefix are around 1937 but I can find little else.

Does anyone have a better idea of possible manufacturing dates? It's not critical but it would be nice to know. Regards, David

[Laurie]

Are you talking original build or conversion dates? I was always given to understand that all 'Mauser-Vergueiros' were made by DWM in 6.5X58P calibre as long rifles with 29-inch barrels sometime over the 1904-06 period and any 7.92mm short-rifle versions were late 1930s / early 1940s conversions, not new build. Portugal adopted the German 7.92mm KAR98k as the m/937 in (surprise, surprise!) 1937 as its standard rifle briefly buying them in from German makers - until the outbreak of WW2 killed that source of course. Converting the older 6.5mm rifles allowed the Portuguese army to supplement those K98s it had received and also simplified logistics by both models using the same cartridge.

As DWM made 100,000 rifles for Portugal over 1904/5, your example's serial number suggests an early one assuming the rifles retained their original identities. When I had an m/1904-39 many years ago, none of the original markings had been altered including calibre which still showed it as an Espingarda 6,5 mm m/1904 as it had been delivered over 100 years ago.

Most if not all of the 6.5s located in Europe were cut down and converted (some sources say they were rebored / rerifled to 7.92, others say rebarrelled), but those with Portuguese colonial forces in Africa and 25,000 that had been sold to South Africa during WW1 mostly remained in original form. A few such originals have recently turned up here and a shooting-collector friend has acquired one. It should (unlike the M1904-39 version) be a very pleasant, shooter-friendly piece to fire, and I've always wondered how this particular 6.5 service rifle would perform on the ranges against the similar spec Swedish M1896 and its 6.5X55mm cartridge.

[johnson3392]

Many thanks Laurie. It was more the original build I was interested in. The markings on the side of the receiver are the same as you described on yours and the calibre marking has not been struck off as some of them were. Logic tells me the prefix starts with A so I could indeed be looking at owning a rifle more than 100 years old. Purists will say it is not a Mauser at all but the history of the Portuguese types seems more interesting and consistent in my opinion.

[Laurie]

Many thanks Laurie. It was more the original build I was interested in. The markings on the side of the receiver are the same as you described on yours and the calibre marking has not been struck off as some of them were. Logic tells me the prefix starts with A so I could indeed be looking at owning a rifle more than 100 years old. Purists will say it is not a Mauser at all but the history of the Portuguese types seems more interesting and consistent in my opinion.

Well it's definitely over 100 years old as there was only a single contract and build lot over two to three years. A number of Brazilian police carbines in 7X57mm Mauser chambering were made in 1906 after the Portuguese contract was completed using left over parts and that was the end of the production history of Vergueiro's hybrid Mannlicher / Mauser design. So your rifle must predate that year.

[Laurie]

PS Do you know how to strip and reassemble the bolt? As it has a detachable bolt-head, the unwary often have it catapulted off into the boonies under mainspring pressure (a very powerful spring believe me) on disassembly. Then attempted reassembly without knowing the correct procedure has been known to reduce grown men to tears of rage and frustration as no matter which way you try to put it together, the bolt won't hold together or cock!

[dave_303]

PS Do you know how to strip and reassemble the bolt? As it has a detachable bolt-head, the unwary often have it catapulted off into the boonies under mainspring pressure (a very powerful spring believe me) on disassembly. Then attempted reassembly without knowing the correct procedure has been known to reduce grown men to tears of rage and frustration as no matter which way you try to put it together, the bolt won't hold together or cock!

Loads of youtube videos tell you how, accidently disassembled mine, absolute arse to get back together. That being said, mine kicks like a mule (more akin to a M44 Mosin, if not worse) but shoots brilliantly and the action is smooth, far smoother than any 98 action i've used.

[johnson3392]

I get the impression you've had some experience of bolt disassembly! Yes, I am aware of this and have seen a few YouTube vids with people tackling it with varying degrees of ease. Not to be taken lightly. The rifle itself has been put to one side at Henry Krank pending FAC arriving in the post. The guys at HK said they acquired it as part of a private historical collection. The bolt cycles very smoothly and the metal butt plate will ensure a sore shoulder, I'm sure. I'll post some pics when I eventually get my hands on it.

Do you use factory or handloads?

[Laurie]

My days of ownership preceded the appearance of You Tube! Yes, I had some fun in assembly / disassembly until I found a printed 'How to ...' somewhere or the other - an old American Gun Digest or Guns and Ammo Annual most likely. I think I did work out reassembly eventually without outside help, but it's a lot easier with illustrated step by step instructions, and I did such for the old Target Sports magazine many, many years ago.

It's a very nice rifle, and with the much milder recoiling 6.5 cartridge would I'm sure be a delight to shoot. When I got mine, you could buy very good quality milspec new manufacture 7.92 ammo for £10-12 / 100 and surplus Portuguese (BMP?) and other other makes at sometimes half that. I was determined not to handload, to have one centrefire rifle where I could just buy cheap ammo and shoot! One range outing with 198gn sS specification ammo though and I was shopping for dies, bullets and brass. While I could live with the recoil that the sS round generates, I wouldn't do so from choice - it is a long-range machinegun round with rifle chambers adapted to cope with it! So I mostly shot lightweight Hornady expanding flat-base spire points over modest Viht N140 loads - perfectly adequate ballistically to 300 yards and much less wear and tear on the shoulder. Now that the silly quasi-S5 classification for expanding bullets that came in much later than the period of m/1904-39 use has been abolished, you can again adopt lighter sporting bullets. For those into casting and loading lead bullets, I know that gas-checked examples can be made to shoot very well in a good 7.92X57mm and they produce still lighter recoiling loads.

[johnson3392]

A lot of good info Laurie - many thanks. I'm not sure if cheap factory 7.92 exists now (in the UK anyway). I would be happy to be corrected however. I had the idea to buy an initial batch of good quality factory ammo, fireform it and then handload to produce a round good enough for 300 yards. Only about another 3 weeks before I take delivery.