British military Winchester lever actions

Pre 1945 action rifles. Muzzle loading.

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Sim G
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British military Winchester lever actions

#1 Post by Sim G »

As some know, I’ve got a bit of a thing for lever actions, in particular Marlins. But that doesn’t mean I don’t like a Winchester! In fact I have a 1913 made Model 92 in .44-40. I git the rifle in a trade deal a few years ago. At sometime, someone has had a go at a refinish, which isn’t too bad, but I’d have preferred it to be original. The wood work is great but the bore is really good! The action is actually quite tight and internally wear and burr free! Initial thoughts was it was carried a lot and shot little. Rifles carried in leather rifle scabbards actually played havoc with finishes. But a shooter it is!

The Winchester 92 actually has a history with the British military, notably the Royal Flying Corps! They were issued with model 92s in .44-40 and are stamped up RFC. I’ve seen a couple in my time and they command a premium!

A few months ago, a friend was looking at my 92 and was making noises about buying it. Now my mate, as much as I love him, he’s tight! Everything little thing you could imagine that shows on a 105 year old rifle, he picked it out, each time sucking wind and knocking down his offer. But then he dame out with his rabbit punch! “It’s not proofed!” And bu**er me, he seemed right, I couldn’t find a mark! Now he wants it for free and for me to pay for proof!

When he goes, I take the fore end off and yeah, there’s a mark under there that as far as I’m concerned, looks like a proof mark! On the receiver and the barrel are clear Winchester proof marks, but then there is another mark that I couldn’t make out. It’s actually crossed flags with a crown and “CDP” either side and under the flag staffs.

So after researching this, I discover that there were other Winchester’s in British military service and not just with the RFC! The Royal Navy had around 12000 model 92s in .44-40 and 2000 model 94s in .30-30!

During the early days of WW1, weapons were needed for the Navy and at the time, all SMLEs were going to the Army. A contract was struck up with Winchester and instead of inspectors going from the UK to The US, personel were dispatched from Canada. It took these Canadian inspectors just over a month to approve the Winchester guns and the stamp they applied signifies Canadian Dominion Proof, hence CDP!

It would certainly explain a good bore and pitted finish. Disciplined servicemen clean the barrel after shooting, but how much salt water was the rifle exposed to and never fired?

Further research and I even came up with an “action report” probably the only time a lever action “Cowboy gun” was used against a submarine!

“During the war the rifles were issued to Torpedo Boat de- stroyers and miscellaneous craft. The latter included ‘Q’ ships intended to act as decoys for armed raiders and U-boats. One such encounter between the decoy fishing smack H.M.A.S. In- verlyon and UB-4 on 15th August 1915 resulted in the sinking of the German submarine. The U-boat surfaced alongside the decoy smack and ordered the crew into the boats. At that point the smack opened fire with their 3 pounder gun and the small arms and sank the submarine. The captain of the Inverlyon in his report stated ‘Greatest distance of the Submarine was 30 yards and closest range was 10 yards. 8 rifles were emptied and I fired 4 revolvers and emptied a Winchester rifle.”

Winchester carbines were also carried on the Zeebrugge raid in 1918 by the assault ship H.M.S. Vindictive. There was appar- ently a rack of them on the bridge and Lt. Cdr. Edward Hilton Young, who lost his right arm in the raid, recalled that “in the distribution of arms my share had been a Winchester Rifle, a service revolver, a gas mask, a weighted cudgel, anti-searchlight glasses, and field glasses.”

It is known that some were issued to cadet or officer training units in the 1920s and there is an unconfirmed report that some were also sent to Australia for cadet use. Rifles that were used drill purposes often have a saw cut forward of the receiver that breeches the barrel. It is unclear what the final disposition of the Winchester’s were, but Department of Disposal records indicate that 3,700 Winchester Model 92s were sold in one transaction in 1919. But to some collectors these are just as desirable as the RFC models.

Image

In between the Winchester proof mark on the barrel and the rear sight, just above the “c” in “WCF”, that is where the Canadian inspector mark is...

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In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
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Re: British military Winchester lever actions

#2 Post by bradaz11 »

nice find Sim
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Re: British military Winchester lever actions

#3 Post by breacher »

And to this day the RAF still use the expression "Going Winchester" to mean expending all the ammo for the aircrafts fitted weapon systems.

I believe a female belicopter pilot was the most recent ?

In WW1 if all machine gun ammo was used, the resorted to a Winchester rifle..........
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Re: British military Winchester lever actions

#4 Post by TomH »

I take it you're not selling now to your nitpicking mate Sim? lol
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Re: British military Winchester lever actions

#5 Post by froggy »

Thanks VM Sim . A most fascinating write-up full up interesting historical facts and sharing your knowledge :good:
and of course thanks for showing your rifle . Guess it is going nowhere now ?
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Re: British military Winchester lever actions

#6 Post by jjvc »

My thanks too Sim for a fascinating post, I really enjoyed it.
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Re: British military Winchester lever actions

#7 Post by Alberto »

Very interesting. That’s a great bit of history you have there.


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Re: British military Winchester lever actions

#8 Post by Nelly2014 »

breacher wrote:And to this day the RAF still use the expression "Going Winchester" to mean expending all the ammo for the aircrafts fitted weapon systems.

I believe a female belicopter pilot was the most recent ?

In WW1 if all machine gun ammo was used, the resorted to a Winchester rifle..........
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... Winchester lol
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Re: British military Winchester lever actions

#9 Post by pluginal »

Well I never realised British forces used Winchesters at all. That was very interesting indeed, thanks. P.S. Tell your 'mate' the price has just doubled. :good:
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Re: British military Winchester lever actions

#10 Post by FredB »

My '92 was made in 1903. I have had is for about 30 years and it has always functioned perfectly. It is covered in Chinese markings, stamped on the barrel and the stock. These translate as: "GuanDung Brigade" which I believe is still part of the Red Army.
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