SMLE questions

Pre 1945 action rifles. Muzzle loading.

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Deadeye18
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SMLE questions

#1 Post by Deadeye18 »

Hello chaps.Ive seen a smle online that's been ftr'd in the 50s for sale.It looks immaculate and apparently doesn't look like it's been shot since the repairs.Only niggling thing that looks iffy to me is a poorly drilled gas vent so would this put anyone else off?or am I overthinking it.Also whats the verdict on the muzzle?mucky but ok or dank so leave it?
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kennyc
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Re: SMLE questions

#2 Post by kennyc »

passed the picture to "someone who knows" he points out muzzle wear from a badly used pull through at the 11 o'clock position, he also suggested passing it by
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Re: SMLE questions

#3 Post by kennyc »

here you go, fame at last :p
Deadeye18
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Re: SMLE questions

#4 Post by Deadeye18 »

Thanks a lot Kennyc! And thanks to the bloke!love his videos.
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Re: SMLE questions

#5 Post by Ovenpaa »

My take on things is the gas vent I have seen similar before, it happens from time to time.

The cord wear from the pull through although annoying is not that significant given that it is a 4MOA, maybe 3MOA at best. If you can put your hands on a set of bore gauges use them and see what it comes out at, I have a set next to me right now however they never leave my sight! Failing that, I would be inclined to shoot it and see how it goes and if you can put 5 shots into a palm sized group at 100 yards off your elbows grab it assuming it is a suitable price.
/d

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Re: SMLE questions

#6 Post by snayperskaya »

For what it's worth I've seen Mosin's with far worse crowns that will shoot a palm sized group at 100m so I personally wouldn't be put of by that SMLE crown.As Ovenpaa said, shoot it if you can and see what it's like before passing on it.
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Re: SMLE questions

#7 Post by Ovenpaa »

There seems to be a lot of snobbery in some circles when it comes to Battle rifles such as the SMLE and I do wish people would just accept them for what they are, along with many others such as the 1903A1 or the Schmidt-Rubin 1896/11 and enjoy them instead of bigging them up or knocking them down dependant on which camp their foot is placed.

All of a sudden people are talking of sub 2MOA accuracy being the norm for such rifles at distances that the average club shooter seldom considers, when if truth be known a lot of shooters here in the UK are probably buying them to enjoy at distances out to 200 or so yards or so and for this they are tremendous fun when kept in the black. What they are not, is accurate by modern standards and I can personally only think of a small handful of such rifles/people who are shooting true MOA at 300 yards with such rifles. So Snayperskaya and I are definitely in agreement :)

BTW, a P14 although far less sexy is an inherently more accurate rifle by way of design before you even start to think about increased sight radius's and aperture sights.
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Re: SMLE questions

#8 Post by snayperskaya »

Ovenpaa wrote:There seems to be a lot of snobbery in some circles when it comes to Battle rifles such as the SMLE and I do wish people would just accept them for what they are, along with many others such as the 1903A1 or the Schmidt-Rubin 1896/11 and enjoy them instead of bigging them up or knocking them down dependant on which camp their foot is placed.

All of a sudden people are talking of sub 2MOA accuracy being the norm for such rifles at distances that the average club shooter seldom considers, when if truth be known a lot of shooters here in the UK are probably buying them to enjoy at distances out to 200 or so yards or so and for this they are tremendous fun when kept in the black. What they are not, is accurate by modern standards and I can personally only think of a small handful of such rifles/people who are shooting true MOA at 300 yards with such rifles. So Snayperskaya and I are definitely in agreement :)

BTW, a P14 although far less sexy is an inherently more accurate rifle by way of design before you even start to think about increased sight radius's and aperture sights.
goodjob

If a WW1 or WW2-era rifle is still capable of hitting a torso-sized target at 300m it is doing what it was designed to do.As Ovenpaa said there are many people that raise the accuracy of their Lee Enfield, Mauser or whatever to near mythical status but centre mass hits was what it was all about rather than tight groups.

The possible exception would be sniper variants of standard battle rifles but these are often better set up with shimmed/bedded actions and a far lower round count than a run-of-the-mill infantry rifle.As an example Vasily Zaitsev said in his memoirs that his snipers rarely shot no more than five rounds a day compared to God knows how many by standard infantrymen.This is borne out by my '44 Izhevsk PU sniper which despite having been issued has a bore that looks as new as damn it like new.

It is far better, in my view, to appreciate these old warhorses for what they are and accept that what they may lack in accuracy they more than make up for with the history behind them and I'm humbled by the fact that chances are the persons my rifles were originally issued to are and carried through God knows what horrors are no longer with us.
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Re: SMLE questions

#9 Post by Laurie »

Having handloaded for and shot the vast majority of commonly found surplus classic rifles I'd agree that 4-MOA size groups shot prone at shorter distances is more than acceptable and that it's either a particularly good model and/or an exceptional example of it that will shoot serial 2-MOA groups. Having owned and shot examples of all the 303s, they're rarely anything special in this regard, the P'14 and Ross M1910 aside.

Some of the non 8mm Mausers can be really good, the South African and South American 7X57s and of course the Historic Arms competitive shooter's darling the M1896 6.5X55 Swedish. Battle sights rarely help and the grouping ability of the better performers definitely benefit from an aperture match type when available. I used bolt-on P-H match rearsights on both SMLEs and No4s over the years and their groups were still nothing special, just helped me to remain more consistent throughout a match or a session. An M1896 Swede fitted with Soderin match sights was another matter and it really would shoot. However, there were a number of detail features about this particular example starting with it having an early receiver that was allocated 'spare' according to Poyer's records and a non-standard bolt handle and knob that suggested it had been built by an arsenal or some unit armourer as a Swedish equivalent to an old British SR(b) class modified service rifle for target use. It would achieve 1-MOA at 100, but even there I'd have my doubts about anything near as small as that as an average over several 5-round strings.

Although I liked US pre-M1 30-06 rifles none ever impressed me in their precision, similar to the L-Es. Despite the wide praise these days of German 7.92X57s and their FN, Brno etc clones I never managed to even achieve L-E standards out of the several I owned including a couple of unused 'sleepers' and found them unpleasant rifles with their recoil and stock shapes. One possible exception was a very nice Portuguese 04/39 Mauser-Vergeuiro that would about achieve 3 to 4-inch groups at 100 - with handloads though, not a chance with military type sS 197gn factory ammunition. I also enjoyed shooting it far more than any KAR98k I owned. Better sights and stock shape.

I still have a couple of 7X57 Chilean contract Mausers these days, an M1895 by DWM and an M1912 ('98 action) by Steyr, both 29.3" barrel long rifles. These will shoot well especially the 1912 and getting three or four shots into 1.5" at 100 when shot fully benched is regularly feasible. The problem is the other one or two shots and I'm never sure if these are genuine fliers or whether it's the trouble I have with 19th C form shallow V-notch rears and partridge foresights and my fading eyesight.

Shooting some of these models with low velocity loads and well cast and sized alloy bullets is often another matter completely and many seem to give their best performance with such ammunition.
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Re: SMLE questions

#10 Post by Ovenpaa »

Laurie, I had inadvertently ignored the 6,5x55 and they are indeed superb rifles. I have a CG-63 which is a cracking rifle at 300m and there is also my probably all time favourite 6,5mm, the Steyr M1900 chambered in 6,5x54MS - Another often overlooked military rifle. In fact, there are so many good military rifles to choose from and I honestly believe they should be shot and enjoyed and accepted for what they are, Titanic era rifles.
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