Destroyer carbine...value?

Pre 1945 action rifles. Muzzle loading.

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Sandgroper
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Re: Destroyer carbine...value?

#11 Post by Sandgroper »

poll007 wrote: I had thought these were chambered for 9x23mm Largo originally so it would be surprising if the loads were too hot (though there are other 9x23mm cartridges as well). I know there are some rechambered for 9x19mm.

I feel Kent police at least wouldn't be happy with just 9mm as a slot-they would want the chambering too.
My mistake, when you said 9x23mm I immediately thought 9x23 Winchester - https://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.ph ... 0cartridge.

I ever managed to get any ammo or seen any for sale but Brownells had some Largo brass reduced so I grabbed it!
Also, I don't use 9x19 and wouldn't because of the risk of breaking the extractor as well as it being a higher pressure round than the Largo.
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Re: Destroyer carbine...value?

#12 Post by mikygpu »

poll007 wrote:
Sandgroper wrote:Only just saw the last few posts...
£500-600 was what I was thinking for value but as said previously the buyer has to be there.
poll007 wrote:I'm with Glockwork on this. I do have a hankering to pick up a more unusual pistol carbine.
I suppose the tricky part with a destroyer is getting the right slot and then sourcing the ammo.
The problem for someone like would be that it really needs to be handloaded for as I don't think you can get factory 9x23 or 38ACP in the UK
I handload mine...started with 38 Super brass (it is slightly too short), then got the rims turned down on some of that brass and now have some 9mm Largo brass to play with. In theory you can use 9x23mm brass but don't use 9x23mm load data...far too hot. Actually, finding load data is the hardest part, I use 38 Super data, slightly underpowered but does the job. As for the slot, I have it listed as a 9mm rifle - been like that for the last 12 or so years.
I had thought these were chambered for 9x23mm Largo originally so it would be surprising if the loads were too hot (though there are other 9x23mm cartridges as well). I know there are some rechambered for 9x19mm.

I feel Kent police at least wouldn't be happy with just 9mm as a slot-they would want the chambering too.
The police force might have something to say for 9mm but would have nothing to say if you ask for 9x19 and 9x23.
I would ask for 3x 9mm slots and if they have something to say against 9mm application, my argument point will be:
1. I want 1x LBR in 9mm. It can come in 9x19 like the Chiappa Rhino, or it can come in 9x23 like Rude Fat Dog custom chambering. And all is down to money.
2. I want a 9mm rifle, it can come in any 9mm ever made. Until I find the rifle I will be unable to know the exact chambering.
3. I want to have a custom rifle build in 9mm, but until I find a manufacturer, I will be unable to tell what chamber rimmer he has and what chamber he builds.
And then quote me (Mihai Paros-Ungurean) for what my FLU said to me: "You are RFD and therefore you can buy any gun you might want and apply for FAC slot afterwards". That is kinda backwards but this is what they said over the phone and I have the recording.
Then say "I am no RFD so therefore I can not choose what 9mm I'll get. It is all down to money.
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Re: Destroyer carbine...value?

#13 Post by mikygpu »

poll007 wrote:Ammo is not that hard to get. I just sold few hundreds on Southams auction.
And if it takes 9x23, it can take 9x19 too. And that is plenty in EU ready to be imported because EU has banned it all 9x19. That's why me and some fellow shooters at club want it. There was a guy making 9mm Luger carbines but he sold the land under his workshop to a developer for flats and all the tools to a manufacturer in EU. Cashed in and retired.

Where did you manage to source the ammo out of interest before then selling it?

I wouldn't necessarily use standard 9x19mm in an unmodified destroyer (unless it was one of the ones chambered for it). there have been inserts made for them but I have at least heard stories of people having issues using 9x19mm ammo in 9x23mm Largo chambers. but then I'm working on hear say and not practical experience.[/quote]

As RFD I buy loose ammo by weight in Auctions and in one of the buys I have found loads of pistol cartridges.
There is a guy at our club which has a 9mm carbine rifle - not a Destroyer tho - and he said he has no problem in shooting 9x19 in 9x23 chamber.
There is a video with comparison :
https://youtu.be/tXMMMUrBVzk

The difference is only 4mm in length and because the round is cylindrical with no bottle neck or any other restriction, the only difference between 9x19 will be that when chambered in a 9x23, the bullet has to “jump” to engage the lands.
The issue will be of a bullet jump, but then so it will be with .38/.357 or .22s/.22L/.22LR in revolvers and in rifles for the latter. My Speedmaster has no problem feeding and shooting .22S and .22LR even loaded interlaced in magazine.
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Re: Destroyer carbine...value?

#14 Post by Sandgroper »

mikygpu wrote:
The difference is only 4mm in length and because the round is cylindrical with no bottle neck or any other restriction, the only difference between 9x19 will be that when chambered in a 9x23, the bullet has to “jump” to engage the lands.
The issue will be of a bullet jump, but then so it will be with .38/.357 or .22s/.22L/.22LR in revolvers and in rifles for the latter. My Speedmaster has no problem feeding and shooting .22S and .22LR even loaded interlaced in magazine. (Because they headspace off the rim!)
Rounds like the Parabellum (x19) and the Largo (x23) headspace off the cartridge mouth so that 4mm is a big deal. IF I shoot x19 in my Destroyer the only thing holding the round in position to fire is the extractor which is quite flimsy and will fail eventually which is why I don't shoot x19 ammo. I don't know what rifle the guy at your club is shooting but he shouldn't be shooting x19 ammo in a rifle designed for x23 ammo...
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Re: Destroyer carbine...value?

#15 Post by poll007 »

Sandgroper wrote:
mikygpu wrote:
The difference is only 4mm in length and because the round is cylindrical with no bottle neck or any other restriction, the only difference between 9x19 will be that when chambered in a 9x23, the bullet has to “jump” to engage the lands.
The issue will be of a bullet jump, but then so it will be with .38/.357 or .22s/.22L/.22LR in revolvers and in rifles for the latter. My Speedmaster has no problem feeding and shooting .22S and .22LR even loaded interlaced in magazine. (Because they headspace off the rim!)
Rounds like the Parabellum (x19) and the Largo (x23) headspace off the cartridge mouth so that 4mm is a big deal. IF I shoot x19 in my Destroyer the only thing holding the round in position to fire is the extractor which is quite flimsy and will fail eventually which is why I don't shoot x19 ammo. I don't know what rifle the guy at your club is shooting but he shouldn't be shooting x19 ammo in a rifle designed for x23 ammo...
This is why broken extractors seem to be somewhat common on destroyers.

It is worth nothing that some destroyers were made in 9x19mm and that many of those in 9x23mm have had an insert added to safely use without damaging the gun.

This sounds like a case of "if it fits I can shoot it" which will likely result in damage over time.
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Re: Destroyer carbine...value?

#16 Post by mikygpu »

poll007 wrote:
Sandgroper wrote:
mikygpu wrote:
The difference is only 4mm in length and because the round is cylindrical with no bottle neck or any other restriction, the only difference between 9x19 will be that when chambered in a 9x23, the bullet has to “jump” to engage the lands.
The issue will be of a bullet jump, but then so it will be with .38/.357 or .22s/.22L/.22LR in revolvers and in rifles for the latter. My Speedmaster has no problem feeding and shooting .22S and .22LR even loaded interlaced in magazine. (Because they headspace off the rim!)
Rounds like the Parabellum (x19) and the Largo (x23) headspace off the cartridge mouth so that 4mm is a big deal. IF I shoot x19 in my Destroyer the only thing holding the round in position to fire is the extractor which is quite flimsy and will fail eventually which is why I don't shoot x19 ammo. I don't know what rifle the guy at your club is shooting but he shouldn't be shooting x19 ammo in a rifle designed for x23 ammo...
This is why broken extractors seem to be somewhat common on destroyers.

It is worth nothing that some destroyers were made in 9x19mm and that many of those in 9x23mm have had an insert added to safely use without damaging the gun.

This sounds like a case of "if it fits I can shoot it" which will likely result in damage over time.
Do you refer to the case forward jump from primer ignition before the powder is ignited? Like the NRA 2019GGG .308 ammo broke RPR's extractors?
I will ask the guy at the club how does he shoot 9x19 in 9x23 chamber. He told me he can shoot it without a problem, so I have assumed it is similar to moon clips in revolvers with belted ammo.
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And maybe...just maybe...I might know something that some don't...like Romanian and Portuguese languages O:-)
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Re: Destroyer carbine...value?

#17 Post by capper »

I think there was 2 in the holts sealed bid sale this month.
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