The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Supporting all legal firearm owners, collectors, enthusiasts, shooters and competitors by promoting and encouraging legitimate gun ownership and use in the UK through unity, advocacy and discussion.
It is currently Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:26 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Should your post be in Grumpy Old Men? This area is for general shooting related posts only please.



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:44 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 14697
Location: The Lincolnshire Wolds
Home club or Range: North Cotes Butts, Grove Small Arms
The new rules will mean that some shooters will loose their card which in turn means they can't shoot on MOD ranges.

I am a member of two clubs, one of them can issue the card however as it is quite a distance away I am not likely to go there very often so the three range days I need a year in order to get the card are not likely to happen.

Which in turn means I can't shoot on MOD ranges near me.

BASC can issue me a card if I attend one of their range days however that is nowhere near me. On top of that their card does not allow me to shoot with other clubs.

I mean... wtf 5mith ****

Another way of getting rid of shooters. Competent shooters who has been shooting for years.

_________________
"Each one hopes that if he feeds the crocodile enough, the crocodile will eat him last."
Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:07 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:57 am
Posts: 17310
Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: St Giles Yarners Durham. The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club
Aye when your world view is no further than the 1200 yrd butts on Stickledown then their decisions will never be based on "national" shooting development needs.

_________________
Image

Come on Bambi get some

Imperial Good Metric Bad
Analogue Good Digital Bad

Reunite Gondwanaland

For fine firearms and requisites visit

http://www.pukkabundhooks.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:20 pm 
Offline
Site Supporter Since 2018
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 7:00 pm
Posts: 170
Home club or Range: D&DR&RC
Christel, the BASC card also has a hand written note on it that it is only good for up to 200 meters (at least the one I got in August did)

_________________
Deddington and District Rifle and Revolver Club (D&DR&RC) http://www.ddrrc.net


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:38 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 14697
Location: The Lincolnshire Wolds
Home club or Range: North Cotes Butts, Grove Small Arms
Plumose wrote:
Christel, the BASC card also has a hand written note on it that it is only good for up to 200 meters (at least the one I got in August did)


Didn't know that, well that makes it as much worth as chocolate in hell.

_________________
"Each one hopes that if he feeds the crocodile enough, the crocodile will eat him last."
Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:56 pm
Posts: 700
Home club or Range: Bisley - Mostly
bash the NRA, bash the NRA forum, Bash the NRA forum........Yawn..... pls change the record.......

....... mostly without actually understanding the rules on say SSC etc or even what NRA actually do - like NRA dont harp on publicly about legislation, they talk directly to MPs about support & lobbying - I & others think that gets heard a lot more than the continual demands for public campaigns that will not work! & that play into the hands of those that oppose shooting.

Christel - wrong - select a club you are a member of, give them a pic & ask them to submit for an SSC with the firearm classifications they think you are competent to handle. They (or you) pay the £10 you get a shiny new card in the post - simples. Crack on shooting.

If your not technically competent they can train/assess you & issue the assessment form as sent to all club Secs & e.g. Muzzle loading can be added too. Its that easy. & you only need 1 SSC from 1 NRA affiliated club - unless they do different things?

Or become a member & get the club to generate the assessment forms send them in & you get a card without any further fee.

Personally i would like to see NRA demand that those in clubs who do SSC assessments are qualified to do that (RCO, Instructor, Coach) because I see range behaviors every weekend that are unsafe & appalling. Is that just a money making scheme by NRA? or is that assuring competence via supposedly competent people just like scuba diving do?

Try talking about the abuse some clubs did with SSC vs how hard it is to get one (sharing them, giving free NRA member ones to non NRA members, handed out as club membership cards with no training, copying them, making their own etc etc) & MOD define the rules for them because of using THEIR ranges or danger areas & since Haddon cave & the loss of crown immunity, they like any other need documentary evidence of something being done to assure safe use & prevent them being prosecuted for an out of range incident.


& before somebody goes on about GDPR & Pictures thats totally legit to ask for, & its use, & half the NRA qualified RCOs who are not members have done so already & have done for years.

This forum has a bad rep for NRA bashing in the wider shooting community & it does the forum & its image no good.

How about some neutral moderation??

_________________
Quality control of Scottish Ethanol. & RDX/HMX

& my fav chemical is :-) 1,3,7-trimethylxanthine.......... used to kill frogs.... but widely consumed & in vast quantities by the French? Eh?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:09 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:57 am
Posts: 17310
Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: St Giles Yarners Durham. The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club
I am sure that this forum has a bad reputation amongst the NRA sycophants, just as it has good rep amongst the shooters who see no benefit from any off our national organisations.

If you are a Bisley shooter then I am sure that you think the NRA is great but if you are not and rely on MoD ranges then every time you book a range then you feel alone isolated and unrepresented.

At the end of the day all you need to do is look at the state of legal gun ownership and shooting in the UK, it is constantly under threat and constantly having, attacks, restrictions, increased costs, reduced access to ranges and firearms, increased bureaucracy, firearms certification departments imposing unilateral restrictions and arbitrary decisions that is almost daily making legal gun ownership and shooting more difficult and restrictive.

I don't doubt that the NRA does put time and effort into speaking with MP's and lobbying however I would disagree with you that it is working just look at the state of legal gun ownership and shooting in the country and the wilful impositions that we are continually subject to. From my perspective whatever the NRA and others are doing to keep legal gun ownership alive in this country isn't working so doing more of the same just isn't good enough.

Regarding poor range behaviours from my experience they are a minority and as safety is all our responsibility then they should be dealt with at the time, not stored up as "evidence" for future use. If clubs are abusing the NRA's systems then it is up to the NRA to enforce its rules.

Regarding the SSC I fully understand why they were brought in and see no harm but good from having a base line of safety competence that we can guarantee to the MoD. Even the bringing in of this competence showed with alarming clarity where the NRA is focused, the competency course and materials that was brought in is completely Bisley based and needs serious reworking for Landmark managed MoD ranges, as opposed to NRA managed MoD ranges (Bisley). That is just one of the many glaring examples of the divide 'tween Bisley and the rest of the country. I am a fan of Bisley and I am pleased to hear that the NRA have made some improvements to our national treasure and are developing shooing there but when I go to Catterick to shoot you cannot but help thinking that has been at the expense of the rest of us.

There is no neutral in this the reality is that if you shoot at Bisley then the NRA has value to you as that is what they do run Bisley, if you shoot in the regions then the NRA is at best seen as an irrelevance and in some cases an obstruction. This based on experience not because people love bashing the NRA, how wonderful it would be to have less blatant faults to find.

The divide is real and what happens here reflects that and is damn sight more honest that the NRA sun is always shining view.

I could go on but it is probably futile to try and get a an NRA proselytizer to understand the issues for legal gun owners and shooters beyond Bisely to understand.

_________________
Image

Come on Bambi get some

Imperial Good Metric Bad
Analogue Good Digital Bad

Reunite Gondwanaland

For fine firearms and requisites visit

http://www.pukkabundhooks.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:32 am
Posts: 1388
hitchphil wrote:
bash the NRA, bash the NRA forum, Bash the NRA forum........Yawn..... pls change the record.......

....... mostly without actually understanding the rules on say SSC etc or even what NRA actually do - like NRA dont harp on publicly about legislation, they talk directly to MPs about support & lobbying - I & others think that gets heard a lot more than the continual demands for public campaigns that will not work! & that play into the hands of those that oppose shooting.

Christel - wrong - select a club you are a member of, give them a pic & ask them to submit for an SSC with the firearm classifications they think you are competent to handle. They (or you) pay the £10 you get a shiny new card in the post - simples. Crack on shooting.

If your not technically competent they can train/assess you & issue the assessment form as sent to all club Secs & e.g. Muzzle loading can be added too. Its that easy. & you only need 1 SSC from 1 NRA affiliated club - unless they do different things?

Or become a member & get the club to generate the assessment forms send them in & you get a card without any further fee.

Personally i would like to see NRA demand that those in clubs who do SSC assessments are qualified to do that (RCO, Instructor, Coach) because I see range behaviors every weekend that are unsafe & appalling. Is that just a money making scheme by NRA? or is that assuring competence via supposedly competent people just like scuba diving do?

Try talking about the abuse some clubs did with SSC vs how hard it is to get one (sharing them, giving free NRA member ones to non NRA members, handed out as club membership cards with no training, copying them, making their own etc etc) & MOD define the rules for them because of using THEIR ranges or danger areas & since Haddon cave & the loss of crown immunity, they like any other need documentary evidence of something being done to assure safe use & prevent them being prosecuted for an out of range incident.


& before somebody goes on about GDPR & Pictures thats totally legit to ask for, & its use, & half the NRA qualified RCOs who are not members have done so already & have done for years.

This forum has a bad rep for NRA bashing in the wider shooting community & it does the forum & its image no good.

How about some neutral moderation??


:good: :good: :good: I'm in total agreement with most of what you say hitchphil especially as regards some clubs previously handing out safe shooter cards with membership cards. Some club officials have absolutely no appreciation whatsoever of their legal responsibilities or personal liabilities.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:24 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 14697
Location: The Lincolnshire Wolds
Home club or Range: North Cotes Butts, Grove Small Arms
hitchphil wrote:

Christel - wrong - select a club you are a member of, give them a pic & ask them to submit for an SSC with the firearm classifications they think you are competent to handle. They (or you) pay the £10 you get a shiny new card in the post - simples. Crack on shooting.

If your not technically competent they can train/assess you & issue the assessment form as sent to all club Secs & e.g. Muzzle loading can be added too. Its that easy. & you only need 1 SSC from 1 NRA affiliated club - unless they do different things?

Or become a member & get the club to generate the assessment forms send them in & you get a card without any further fee.

This forum has a bad rep for NRA bashing in the wider shooting community & it does the forum & its image no good.

How about some neutral moderation??


As far as I understand it the club that issues the card has to be NRA affiliated which my club isn't.
Also there is a three times a year attendance rule, NRA says so.

Actually there is no bashing going on here, only thing that seems to happen is that everytime the NRA is mentioned it is taken as bashing.
Perception is reality as they say.

_________________
"Each one hopes that if he feeds the crocodile enough, the crocodile will eat him last."
Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:43 pm
Posts: 1250
Location: Bisley
Home club or Range: NRA Bisley
christel wrote:

As far as I understand it the club that issues the card has to be NRA affiliated which my club isn't.
Also there is a three times a year attendance rule, NRA says so.



There is no such three-times-a-year rule from the NRA as far as I know. A club issuing a card does have to be NRA Affiliated. The privilege that goes with a card is to shoot without one-on-one supervision on an MoD or NRA range. To do either of those one has to be a member of an NRA affiliated club, or of the NRA itself, so I'm not sure where the issue is with non-affiliated clubs not being able to issue SCCs.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:32 am
Posts: 1388
christel wrote:
hitchphil wrote:

Christel - wrong - select a club you are a member of, give them a pic & ask them to submit for an SSC with the firearm classifications they think you are competent to handle. They (or you) pay the £10 you get a shiny new card in the post - simples. Crack on shooting.

If your not technically competent they can train/assess you & issue the assessment form as sent to all club Secs & e.g. Muzzle loading can be added too. Its that easy. & you only need 1 SSC from 1 NRA affiliated club - unless they do different things?

Or become a member & get the club to generate the assessment forms send them in & you get a card without any further fee.

This forum has a bad rep for NRA bashing in the wider shooting community & it does the forum & its image no good.

How about some neutral moderation??


As far as I understand it the club that issues the card has to be NRA affiliated which my club isn't.
Also there is a three times a year attendance rule, NRA says so.

Actually there is no bashing going on here, only thing that seems to happen is that everytime the NRA is mentioned it is taken as bashing.
Perception is reality as they say.


Christel I think that you may be mistaken and have taken the "three times a year" attendance rule from the guidance for H.O. approved clubs not the NRA. Most clubs try to incorporate sections from the regulations into their own club rules.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group