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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:22 pm 
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he gun has featured since the injuns were riding the plains, and is seen in a totally different way. It really is a right to own one over there, while here it is a priviledge. I genuinely dont want to see them as accessible here as they are there because mass killings there are pretty well routine now kukkuk .
troutslapping troutslapping wallhead wallhead

Nonsense, it's a totally different culture and you know it maggot. You can do better than spout this nonsense mate. cheers

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Home club or Range: NRA Bisley
Ah, the "C" word again...........when I look around and see/hear how Joe Public behaves, kroozin in a heap 'o s*** beemer with megabass car stereo flat out, the twats who routinely scream up the main road near me at 80-90 plus on motorbikes, (a residential area with a 30mph limit), the scruffy tykes sat on the pavements swigging cans of beer in the local shopping centres, or shooting up in the parks, the scuffles outside city pubs at chucking out time, vomit/spittle/discarded junk food on the pavements, sad looking teenage girls shoving sprogs in pushchairs around, the stabbings/muggings that have become part of everyday life...............

I'm definitely with Maggot on that one!!

Pete

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Chuck wrote:
Quote:
he gun has featured since the injuns were riding the plains, and is seen in a totally different way. It really is a right to own one over there, while here it is a priviledge. I genuinely dont want to see them as accessible here as they are there because mass killings there are pretty well routine now kukkuk .
troutslapping troutslapping wallhead wallhead

Nonsense, it's a totally different culture and you know it maggot. You can do better than spout this nonsense mate. cheers



Yes I know and its what I meant Chuck, but guns are part of the furniture stateside mate and sadly, over here, we just see another mass shooting and hardly raise an eyelid.

Over here we dont have guns as part of our culture anything like, so cannot expect the public support mate. As Dark Skies said, they just dont know or dont care.

If we have a single person shot by a legit gun owner it goes ballistic (rightly so) but sadly the facts are rarely reported.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:53 pm 
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FredB wrote:
Oddly enough. I don't agree about lobbying. I have in the past been part of large industrial combines with their own national bodies which allocated funds to lobbying. It was totally ineffective. Politicians expect to be lobbied and are waiting for it: it does not seem to materially affect their decisions. What they are sensitive to and what causes them to react and pass legislation is public opinion. Public opinion is reflected and influenced by the media. Our problem is that almost all of our publicity is negative.
Every national body and EVERY CLUB should have a PR deparment. Competitions should be reported, journalists invited along and we should have a presence visible to the community at large.
Shooting has hidden itselt from the public gaze for more than a century. Our triumphs and successes are only reported at olympic level and not much then.
The "one national body" cry is a cop out. A single oponent means that the opposition know who they have to tackle. We are everywhere: all over the UK and the media and the public should know it and be interested.
We are fighting public apathy and the desire to reduce crime. Come out from the shelter: TELL ABOUT THE GOOD SIDE OF SHOOTING and the MPs will respond.
Fred


Cracking, people need the good news about shooting, that was what I was cocking up trying to say :oops: This was my point about the media, the good news only gets to those that already know about it. Bad news is good news for the media as it sells and gets viewers, but they never give the balanced view.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:01 pm 
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dromia wrote:
Maggot wrote:
The problem seems to be (and I cant for the life of me find it to access) that on the list of primary and secondary disciplines, I dont remember seeing general shooting down as a category, however target rifle is.

Many people put this down because, logically, they are shooting targets with rifles.....But not backsliding lederhosen wearing winge meisters :run:



I think the fact that the NRA doesn't seem to want to represent us serious plinkers and gun lovers speaks volumes for the organisation.

Like anything else it will only change when it wants to change and after decades of membership any meaningful change to represent 21st century shooters is unlikely, they have their comfort zone, Bisley, disciplines and competitions and have no vision or inclination to go beyond that. When it comes to legislation they are a victim organisation that only re-acts and seems to think the pro-active lobbying, advertising, promoting ideas beyond them.

I include all the other organisations in this and as shooters we are just wasting our energy looking to them for meaningful pro active, engagement in attacking the anti threat.

They are divisive by nature and the discipline barriers just reinforces this divided thinking and divided attitudes.

If we want any hope of saving shooting then the answer lies not with the current batch of inward looking, fragmented vested interest organisations. They don't see or recognise the same problems that the vast majority of gun owners experience. (Great news that they have an electronic marking system at Bisley whilst the rest of us are struggling with, and paying for analogue targetry that doesn't work on MoD ranges. Just had to about give up buts marking on Saturday due to inoperative frames.) The current rash of legal gun owning persecution is a much the fault of the "national" organisations as the fault of the antis. The national organisations wimpish weakness and ineffectiveness just emboldens the antis.

Already we have yet again been beaten on the 50 cal issue, by agreeing to and promoting stricter security as an answer to a problem that doesn't exist we have given the antis power to bring forth more and more restrictive legislation.

Our shooting bodies have agreed to the principle that some guns are more dangerous than others when the fact is that some criminals (human beings) are more dangerous than others, the world cannot be made totally safe and futile legislation just diverts attention and resources from tackling the real problems.


Genuinely cant disagree with this but how will it change? You mention the electronic targets but they benefit but a few, and the sooner people realise that they are fallible and wont replace paper for true zeroing and load testing the better. Interesting that one discipline wanted to know "what was being done for them" when it is patently obvious the place revolves around them. Officially we cannot even get hand held targets for practice, it just so happens my club manufacture our own. Actually Adam I know its a faff and I cannot comment on the size you need but hand helds are a bloody sight easier to use than nasty old frames mate...if you can use them.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Location: Berkshire
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One of my clubs has a PR department - it's me.

We had some success with this a few years ago. We ran a miniature shooting range during the local summer carnival, hosted shooting days for youth groups and hired our indoor range to a TV company for a scene from the series Primeval. Also the local Cubs shoot there regularly.

I also worked with the local police on an initiative called F.A.K.E (Firearms and Knife Education). The aim was for the police and local Neighbourhood Action Group to promote a positive image of firearms and how their proper use can be a rewarding skill, hobby, sport and even profession. Unfortunately it came to naught when the police pulled out after they had an "incident" (i.e. ND) at their HQ.

The local council isn't keen on promoting our activities so we've wound back on PR these days.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:42 pm 
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Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: St Giles Yarners Durham. The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club
Maggot wrote:
[ Actually Adam I know its a faff and I cannot comment on the size you need but hand helds are a bloody sight easier to use than nasty old frames mate...if you can use them.


Not allowed on the MoD ranges Catterick as they are dangerous, some one got some splinters behind the mantlet once and cried.

We used to have an Ayatollah's head, hand held (1:1 scale) that would scarper along the top of the mantlet and every one got as many off at it as they could as it passed their firing point. We got 26 hits out of 30 rnds fired in one pass at 300 yrds one day, that Ayatollah target used to improve accuracy no end, target was fecked afterwards though, not much left to patch.

We are living in a can't do world.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Chuck wrote:
Quote:
he gun has featured since the injuns were riding the plains, and is seen in a totally different way. It really is a right to own one over there, while here it is a priviledge. I genuinely dont want to see them as accessible here as they are there because mass killings there are pretty well routine now kukkuk .
troutslapping troutslapping wallhead wallhead

Nonsense, it's a totally different culture and you know it maggot. You can do better than spout this nonsense mate. cheers


Have to agree.

The PERCEIVED level of gun crime in USA is media hype.

Do they have shootings ? Yes of course. But its not because they have guns - it is a mental health issue.

What they rarely ( as was the case recently ) do, is publicise the cases of crime being stopped by an armed citizen. Have you heard about the citizen recently who stopped an attack on a school in its tracks BEFORE a single child was murdered ? They did it with an AR15 ! No, I thought not - because thats not part of their agenda.

If US gun crime was as everyday as its supposed to be, then having spent the equivalent of ALMOST A YEAR accumulated in living these ( CA IN MY 20s ad all over the rest on hols since ) then statistically I should have been a victim or witness to gun crime by now ? But no - I actually feel safer there !

And we have no right to criticise when we have a LOT of murders in the UK. Look at London FFS !!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:40 pm 
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Back in the good old days when I shot pistols, I was on my way to Bisley for the Anno Domini meeting when I was held up in Wolverhampton by several bus loads of policemen who were dispersing in the streets around the football stadium. On the saturday afternoon of the meeting, the police presence arrived at Bisley: a Panda car which clocked in at the range office and then departed.
Football regularly kills people; Hillsborough, riots with drunken yobbos and so on, but it is the national sport and is reported on favourably on the national news every day. They don't need a lobby---they charge their supporters for the privelige of attending and charge enough to creaste lots of multi millionaires. What they are good at is PR. We hide our hobby from thye public gaze and as a result, the public does not understand that guns can be used for sport. I saw and experienced the wonderful sport of target pistol shooting being killed off to appease people who did not even know that it existed until it was mis-used by a criminal lunatic.
It is your fault---all of you. The NRA is a soft target when you need someone to blame.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:52 pm 
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I think that is very unfair to those shooters who do their part and more to try and stem the assault, I suspect that there are even more who would do more with a little motivation and leadership at a national level.

That is where the NRA and the "national" bodies fail us all in leadership also they fail us miserably on the very issue that you feel is needed meaningful positive promotion, just as they failed us miserably over the pistol ban, it took Albee Fox to create a new organisation that effectively mobilised the shooting community, the NRA and the rest just sat back a twiddled their thumbs.

Ultimately we are all culpable because we are part of the society that has given us such poor governance, the "beauty" of democracy is the people get the government they deserve, yes shooters who are indifferent to these threats let us all down but these "national" organisations who say that they support shooting and take not insubstantial amounts of money for membership so I think it is only fair that these bodies be held to account when the real need for them comes, but yet again they have shafted us by agreeing to the HO view of the non-problem, that to me is outrageous and traitorous to shooters so get ready for further damning of them as this legislative abomination unfolds.

Reasoned argument has won us nothing in relation to getting a fair legislative outcome but they still continue in the same old way and let us get shafted in the same old way.

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