Gun Safe Keys

[barney57]

At the end of the day Guy's if someone, (a good burglar) wants to get into your house and your cabinet,or car,they will and probably in about the same length of time it would take a Locksmith,, if not quicker..

In short the best security,,, would be Low entanglement barbed wire, sprinkled with a few Anti-personel mines,,,couple of claymore mines, trip flares,,,and mounted GPMG's on fixed lines with automatic activation on movement in the killing area,,,might just suffice!! :lol: :lol:

[Robin128]

Standard!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Rob

[Robin128]

Ah yes, Password control. :P Always an audit point.

Sent my team to a branch in the west country with a quasi systematic random sample of advance payments that just happened to include a few that were above office manager mandate....at great protest from my team of neanderthals who were used to checking signatures,ie old school.

Within 2 hours they rang me in my ivory tower and said, Rob....you'd never guess!

Passwords on stickies in the drawer (not even in a dodgy key safe :shock: ) and what do you think? An advance of £50k that day when the only mandate was the branch manager...who happened to be in New York with no computer access.

Ass-kicking for a fortnight!

Well, we have to live you know.

Rob

[Mike2]

Sections 1(2) and 2(2) of the Firearms Act 1968 makes in an offence to fail to comply with conditions on Firearm or Shotgun Certificates.
Rules 3 (4)(iv) and 5(4)(iv) of the Firearms Rules 1998 set out specific conditions on both certificates relating to secure storage (You'll find them as conditions 4 (a) & (b) on your certificates.)

The important bit in these conditions (so far as this discussion is concerned) is;

• "...stored securely so as to prevent, so far as reasonably practicable, access...... by an unauthorised person."

It does not mention cabinets, safes, number of levers in locks, BS 7558, police "approval" or any particular method - it's YOUR responsibility to ensure that you comply with the condition.

There is also the "Firearms Security Handbook 2005" which helps to give both us and the police guidance on this area see - http://psa.bizhosting.com/Interesting.html right at the bottom of the page.

An "unauthorised person" means anyone who doesn't have a certificate, (or the right to possess guns without one, such as the police when on duty.) Obviously telling an unauthorised person where the keys to your cabinet are does not comply with these conditions, as Mr Farrar found out (The solicitor mentioned in previous posts.)

It boils down to the certificate holder taking reasonable precautions - not unreasonable ones. If you live in a high crime area, you would be right to be cautious about unexpected callers at your front door - the rural area, perhaps less so - it's a matter of what is reasonable in the circumstances.

[Robin128]

On security, I had already updated the library on this forum with extracts from BASC, the Firearms Rules 1998 and the Home office Security handbook 2005...the latter does refer to specifications for gun cabinets BS 7558, key safes and the number of lock levers.

Doubtless, Mike, you would agree that the security of one's weapons is only as good as that afforded to one's key safe.

Rob

[Dangermouse]

Going back to the original question..

Ask your FET for their opinion, at the end of the day it is that person that you are trying to keep happy, not someone who you have possibly never met on a internet forum!

As with everything in life, if you can get a hard copy - a letter - or an email with the FET's name on it, keep it. Definitely get the persons name one way or another,

DM

[Robin128]

Going back to the original question..

Ask your FET for their opinion, at the end of the day it is that person that you are trying to keep happy, not someone who you have possibly never met on a internet forum!

As with everything in life, if you can get a hard copy - a letter - or an email with the FET's name on it, keep it. Definitely get the persons name one way or another,

DM

DM,

If you read the posts in this and the Library sections you will see references to relevant statutes and Home Office guidance, thereby not requiring anyone to rely on opinion and hearsay.

An Email is the last thing one should rely on as that form of communication is notoriously insecure and therefore unreliable.

It is certainly not about keeping a FET happy, hence previous referrals to BASC.

Here's an interesting piece of case law...from the Home Office Guidance to the Police 2002 Document...

"Knowledge by an unauthorised person of the location of the keys or to the combination to the locks may lead to a breach of the statutory security condition. In the case of Regina v Chelmsford Crown Court, Ex parte Farrer (2000) it was agreed that deliberately providing information of the whereabouts of the keys was an offence. It was “reasonably practicable” for Mr Farrer not to tell his mother where the keys were kept in this case."

http://www.basc.org.uk/en/utilities/doc ... 523083F073



Rob

[Dangermouse]

The law surrounding firearms is an ASS, I am sure that we will all agree on that. Talking to two different authorities can see two different answers, I witnessed this myself when asking about importing a firearm to the UK, when I caught the Surrey FET boss and the NRA chap both in the same room. I left that room non the wiser and with them both sill discussing the issue.

I had asked several people their views on how to fit a safe in my house which is a new build and has a wood frame, so no supporting walls. I shall not go into the detailed answers but they were wide and varied.
In the end I spoke to my FET and he surprised me with his approach, which resulted in a far easier solution and also a far cheaper one, but sufficient for both security and peace of mind.

I do all my notifications via email, this has never been questioned by the Surrey FET. I was also club secretary and always communicated via email re new and leaving members, again no problems. I have a receipt as do they should anything ever be challenged.

Re keeping your FET happy. Should you wish to go the barrack room lawyer approach, then no, they are not the person who need to be kept happy - but then - when they are not happy do not be surprised when you find yourself in the same predicament as Mr Farrer!

[Ovenpaa]

For us it was down to two questions:

Is the FET happy with the way we secure our firearms and ammunition?
Are our firearms and ammunition as secure as I can make them within reasonably practicable levels?

If the answer to each question is yes you have made a reasonable start.

Regarding the FET and emails, our local team are very happy to receive emails and always reply promptly. Anything important is backed up by hard copy.

[Robin128]

Statutory compliance and case law precedent is central to the OP. Ignorance of the law is no defence.

I recommend everyone read the statutes quoted and the linked Home Office guidance.

The question raised in the OP has been answered here and on GT.

Keep your second set of keys hidden at home where it would take a concerted effort for someone else with access to your home to find them.


Rob