The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Supporting all legal firearm owners, collectors, enthusiasts, shooters and competitors by promoting and encouraging legitimate gun ownership and use in the UK through unity, advocacy and discussion.
It is currently Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:24 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Should your post be in Grumpy Old Men? This area is for general shooting related posts only please.



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 116 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:02 am
Posts: 107
Home club or Range: Diggle
My understanding is the seller does not enter it onto your FAC until they are at their RFD and they have taken possession.

So your FAC arrives in the post, they see you have the slot and form a contract of sale at that point, part of that contract is they deliver to your chosen RFD. You pay. They take their firearm to their RFD and then sign it off their FAC at the RFD. The RFD then takes the firearm and sends it using the approved method to your RFD. The seller then returns your FAC which now has their old gun on it. You take your FAC to your RFD and collect your firearm and the contract is complete.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:32 pm 
Offline
Site Supporter Since 2016
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:32 pm
Posts: 1849
Home club or Range: Harlow TAC, NRA, BSRC
You are both confusing possession with ownership.

A firearm can be on more than one FAC. The person who is 'looking after' the firearm has to maintain its safety.

In the example above the seller has to maintain its safe keeping until it is deposited with the RFD, the it is the RFD-delivery driver-warehouse staff-delivery driver-RFD- and finally the buyer who has to maintain its safe keeping in turn.

It doesn't matter when the seller writes on the buyer's FAC. It can be when he receives it or if he wants to monopolise the shopkeeper's time a bit more he can do it in the shop the instant it is handed over - it doesn't matter. Obviously it should be done in a timely manner and not take ages to get the firearm in to the delivery network.

Why is it so hard to do it the way it should be done instead of arguing about loads of hypothetical what-ifs? The conditions on the FAC must be adhered to, the police will go by the guidance and I believe the guidance is now to be considered as having legal force.
Do it anyway you like but get caught doing it wrong and risk your FAC.

Yes it is a faff but all UK gun ownership has been a faff for many years now but that is the price we pay for persueing our sport and/or business.

_________________
Arming the Country, one gun at a time.

Good deals with Charlotte the flyer, majordisorder, Charlie Muggins, among others. Thanks everybody.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:40 am
Posts: 613
Location: KENT
Evening Mattnall

I’ve no problem doing things in the way the guidance stipulates, in reality it boils down to a couple of royal mail special deliveries for the fac on my part, it does mean that the market for firearms has been stymied as I’m also led to believe that even placing a deposit to have a rifle held for you is outside the guidance if you don’t have a slot for the rifle.
My query was more an attempt to establish if there was a reason that the guidance/ law is written the way it is and what the objections to the previously accepted norm are. I quite agree that it would be foolhardy to risk prosecution to try and argue the point.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:57 pm 
Offline
Site Supporter Since 2016
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:32 pm
Posts: 1849
Home club or Range: Harlow TAC, NRA, BSRC
Firearms laws aren't the best thought out laws. But they are what we have to follow.

_________________
Arming the Country, one gun at a time.

Good deals with Charlotte the flyer, majordisorder, Charlie Muggins, among others. Thanks everybody.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:46 pm
Posts: 206
Location: South West
Home club or Range: Hants & Bisley
Sorry to muddy the water here, but I've just read something on a dealer's website (not sure if I can post the name in here?) about buying via your RFD which states:

"Option two: purchase through your registered firearms dealer
Give us a call on XXXXXXXXXXX to reserve your gun. Then, place your order via your Registered Firearms Dealer (RFD).

Your RFD will contact us to buy the firearm or shotgun on your behalf. You pay your RFD and collect your purchase from them. Remember to take your license with you when visiting your local RFD."

I'm guessing from what I've read above that this only applies for an RFD buying from another RFD? Curious as to if this can work for private sales.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:38 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:57 am
Posts: 17798
Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club. St Giles Yarners Durham.
Any uncertainty and you should speak with your certification authority as they are the ones who interpret the law on behalf of the state, if the certification authority interpretation is disagreed with then you will need to go to court to challenge it.

It is always prudent to get your certification authorities take on it as they are the ones whose seek for compliance, unfortunately Firearms legislation is so written that interpretation ranges widely across the country and consistency is not universal by any means, stimulate this vagueness with our institutions anti gun ethos and it can be easy to fall foul when looking for interpretation.

Certification authorities do not always get it right but unless you are prepared to challenge them then their is little you can do and we are all hostage to their vagaries.

_________________
Image

Come on Bambi get some

Imperial Good Metric Bad
Analogue Good Digital Bad

Reunite Gondwanaland

For fine firearms and requisites visit

http://www.pukkabundhooks.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:54 am
Posts: 80
Location: West Sussex, UK
Home club or Range: Chichester Rifle and Pistol Club
Appreciate this is an old post now but thought I would add something I spotted. The Basc link given by someone a couple of pages back for RFD states:

"It is illegal to complete a sale (accept full payment) for a firearm, Section 1
component part or accessory or shot gun to a person who cannot produce a
firearm or shot gun certificate authorising them to acquire the firearm etc. You
may only take a deposit on a purchase prior to sight of the relevant certificate
giving authority to purchase the firearm."

This suggests that you CAN take a deposit for a firearm before seeing the buyers FAC. You just cannot take payment in full.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:24 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:57 am
Posts: 17798
Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club. St Giles Yarners Durham.
This bit says otherwise surely:

"You may only take a deposit on a purchase prior to sight of the relevant certificate
giving authority to purchase the firearm."

_________________
Image

Come on Bambi get some

Imperial Good Metric Bad
Analogue Good Digital Bad

Reunite Gondwanaland

For fine firearms and requisites visit

http://www.pukkabundhooks.com/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:02 am 
Offline
Site Supporter 2019
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:23 am
Posts: 3444
Location: Weston Super Mare
Home club or Range: Phoenix at Thorn. The tunnel at Charmouth, BWSS
That says you can dromia.

_________________
When guns are outlawed, only Outlaws will have guns


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:40 am 
Offline
Site Supporter Since 2015
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:27 pm
Posts: 22892
Location: The Lincolnshire Wolds, UK
Home club or Range: North Coates Butts UK. Grove Small Arms, Barton Road UK. Ulfborg Skyttecenter DK. BASC Trade Member
I am sure there is a typo in there somewhere as I have always believed it was unlawful to accept any monies for a firearm for which the customer did not have lawful authority.

_________________
/d

Du lytter aldrig til de ord jeg siger. Du ser mig kun for det tøj jeg har paa ...

Shed Journal
Binbrook UK Live Weather


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 116 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 1066 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group