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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:42 am
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Location: Chelveston, Northants
Home club or Range: Oundle R&PC
I've written to my MP this evening, I expect it will make no impact but at least I tried.

Dear Sir

I feel I must write in dismay that legal firearms holders are again being victimised by the inclusion of the ban of .50 Calibre and MARS action rifles on the very much needed act to ban certain knives and acids from being freely available. Myself, wife and teenage son are all members of Oundle Rifle and Pistol Club and very much enjoy our sport, I am a responsible Firearms certificate holder who has gone through police checks and deemed suitable to have firearms and we genuinely feel that this is the start of a slow erosion of the publics right to hold firearms.

The justification is that there is a perceived threat that these pose a high risk of being stolen and used by criminals or terrorists, despite the fact that in the last few years it has been proven that large vehicles are far more likely to be used to cause mass casualty events and not firearms, even illegal ones.

Firstly there are only a small number of .50 Calibre rifles in private ownership and their use is restricted to those who are members of the Fifty Cal Shooting Club. The thinking seems to be that these could be stolen and used against persons or objects because of the impact they would cause.

The MARS (Manually Activated Recoil System) rifles are centre fire rifles that works by the shooter pulling the trigger once to close the action onto a round and then a second pull to fire, the action then locks back and requires another pull to close again. The perceived threat is stated they can supposedly fire quicker and therefore are more of a risk if stolen and used nefariously.

Any bolt action or under lever rifle can potentially be shot quickly and my concerns are that should this excuse be let by in this case then all rifles will be deemed as fair game by over zealous anti shooting concerns.

As I'm sure you're aware in England, Wales and Scotland are prohibited from owning pistols following the 1996/7 amendments following Dunblane, this has done nothing to prevent gun crime as criminals seem to have a ready supply of pistols and don't follow the law.

The second reading for the act is on 27th June and as my MP I ask that questions are raised as to the validity of the inclusion of this section of the act as anyone who has an ounce of sense cannot make a connection to making our streets safer.

Yours Respectfully

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:59 pm
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Home club or Range: PSA
I have just got back from 3 day conference in the Netherlands... had a text message to say something was happening re. the consultation.

So, does this mean that my 9mm Lever Release Southern Gun Rifle is about to be banned if this bill becomes law?


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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:17 am 
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Location: Weston Super Mare
Home club or Range: Phoenix at Thorn. The tunnel at Charmouth, BWSS
HH1 wrote:
I have just got back from 3 day conference in the Netherlands... had a text message to say something was happening re. the consultation.

So, does this mean that my 9mm Lever Release Southern Gun Rifle is about to be banned if this bill becomes law?


yes

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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:07 am 
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Location: Weston Super Mare
Home club or Range: Phoenix at Thorn. The tunnel at Charmouth, BWSS
I've used 20series email for inspiration here, and added a section on knives, as unlike 20series, I don't feel it is very much needed at all. I think they just need to use the laws they already have and build more prisons

(edit - not a dig at 20series by the way)

Quote:
I feel I must write in dismay that legal firearms holders are again being victimised by the inclusion of the ban of .50 Calibre, MARS action and lever release rifles on the Bill to ban certain knives and acids from being freely available.I am a member of The Tunnel Target Sports Centre in Dorset, and very much enjoy my sport, I am a responsible Firearms certificate holder who has gone through police checks and deemed suitable to have firearms and genuinely feel that this is the continuation of a slow erosion of the public's right to hold firearms.

The justification put foward for this act is that there is a perceived threat that these pose a high risk of being stolen and used by criminals or terrorists, despite the fact that in the last few years it has been proven that large vehicles or kitchen knives are far more likely to be used to cause mass casualty events and not firearms, even illegal ones.

Firstly there are only a small number of .50 Calibre rifles in private ownership and their use is restricted to a very small number of ranges. The thinking seems to be that these could be stolen and used against persons or objects because of the impact they would cause. One of the reasons given was that the police have no way to combat this perceived threat. This is in my eyes a very poor excuse, we are banning a legally held item - which has never ever been used in a crime before - because it COULD be stolen and used illegally? Do we really want our laws being formed on this sort of logic? There are Section 5 firearm dealers working in this country who have full auto firearms, grenade launchers and the like, but they aren't seen as being a risk? This isn't even thinking about the illegal firearms that these groups have access to.

When these proposals were first released and I sent an initial email to you, all the documents just refereed to rapid firing firearms, mentioning MARS, but from the proposed wording of the law, it is clear that they wish to include lever release rifles in this. This means their supporting documents like their impact assessments are skewed, as the numbers of these rifles have not been taken into account. The MARS (Manually Activated Recoil System) rifles are centre fire rifles that works by the shooter pulling the trigger once to close the action onto a round and then a second pull to fire, the action then locks back and requires another pull to close again. Lever Release Rifles work in a similar way, but rather than a 2nd trigger pull, after you fire, the bolt is released by a lever on the side of the firearm. this then loads another round, ready to fire.

The perceived threat is stated they can supposedly fire quicker and therefore are more of a risk if stolen and used nefariously. Any bolt action or under lever rifle can potentially be shot quickly and my concerns are that should this excuse be let by in this case then all rifles will be deemed as fair game by over zealous anti shooting concerns as fast is an arbitary value, what is fast?

As I'm sure you're aware in England, Wales and Scotland are prohibited from owning pistols following the 1996/7 amendments following Dunblane, this has done nothing to prevent gun crime as criminals seem to have a ready supply of pistols and don't follow the law, although was actually a response to an incident. where is the incident here? Can the government really just dream up what if scenarios and ban us from owning our possessions?

The act is also dealing with the online sale of knives to anyone under 18, and needing age verification at a collection point. Has this legislation really been thought out? How will it be policed? who commits an offense if a shop worker hands a package over? bladed article, what does that mean? blenders are bladed articles, does this mean you can no longer buy these online?

almost all the pictures I see in the newspapers regarding knife crime, usually point to it being a kitchen type knife, I don't think these are being bought online to be used in crime, they are being bought online to replace the ones taken and used! We can ban the online sale of everything, but we still need these items in the home and at work, so they will still be available for use, so what will this part of the act actually stop? It will just impact normal people like you and I from buying what we want at a fair price and in a convenient way.

The second reading for the act is on 27th June and as my MP I ask that questions are raised as to the validity of the inclusion of these sections of the Bill as anyone who has an ounce of sense cannot make a connection to making our streets safer.

I really hope that you take the time to read this as I feel this is a Bill with huge consequences to every one of your constituents and should not be taken lightly.

Yours sincerely

_________________
When guns are outlawed, only Outlaws will have guns


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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:05 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:42 am
Posts: 4075
Location: Chelveston, Northants
Home club or Range: Oundle R&PC
No worries mate, excellent letter :good:

Alan




bradaz11 wrote:
I've used 20series email for inspiration here, and added a section on knives, as unlike 20series, I don't feel it is very much needed at all. I think they just need to use the laws they already have and build more prisons

(edit - not a dig at 20series by the way)

Quote:
I feel I must write in dismay that legal firearms holders are again being victimised by the inclusion of the ban of .50 Calibre, MARS action and lever release rifles on the Bill to ban certain knives and acids from being freely available.I am a member of The Tunnel Target Sports Centre in Dorset, and very much enjoy my sport, I am a responsible Firearms certificate holder who has gone through police checks and deemed suitable to have firearms and genuinely feel that this is the continuation of a slow erosion of the public's right to hold firearms.

The justification put foward for this act is that there is a perceived threat that these pose a high risk of being stolen and used by criminals or terrorists, despite the fact that in the last few years it has been proven that large vehicles or kitchen knives are far more likely to be used to cause mass casualty events and not firearms, even illegal ones.

Firstly there are only a small number of .50 Calibre rifles in private ownership and their use is restricted to a very small number of ranges. The thinking seems to be that these could be stolen and used against persons or objects because of the impact they would cause. One of the reasons given was that the police have no way to combat this perceived threat. This is in my eyes a very poor excuse, we are banning a legally held item - which has never ever been used in a crime before - because it COULD be stolen and used illegally? Do we really want our laws being formed on this sort of logic? There are Section 5 firearm dealers working in this country who have full auto firearms, grenade launchers and the like, but they aren't seen as being a risk? This isn't even thinking about the illegal firearms that these groups have access to.

When these proposals were first released and I sent an initial email to you, all the documents just refereed to rapid firing firearms, mentioning MARS, but from the proposed wording of the law, it is clear that they wish to include lever release rifles in this. This means their supporting documents like their impact assessments are skewed, as the numbers of these rifles have not been taken into account. The MARS (Manually Activated Recoil System) rifles are centre fire rifles that works by the shooter pulling the trigger once to close the action onto a round and then a second pull to fire, the action then locks back and requires another pull to close again. Lever Release Rifles work in a similar way, but rather than a 2nd trigger pull, after you fire, the bolt is released by a lever on the side of the firearm. this then loads another round, ready to fire.

The perceived threat is stated they can supposedly fire quicker and therefore are more of a risk if stolen and used nefariously. Any bolt action or under lever rifle can potentially be shot quickly and my concerns are that should this excuse be let by in this case then all rifles will be deemed as fair game by over zealous anti shooting concerns as fast is an arbitary value, what is fast?

As I'm sure you're aware in England, Wales and Scotland are prohibited from owning pistols following the 1996/7 amendments following Dunblane, this has done nothing to prevent gun crime as criminals seem to have a ready supply of pistols and don't follow the law, although was actually a response to an incident. where is the incident here? Can the government really just dream up what if scenarios and ban us from owning our possessions?

The act is also dealing with the online sale of knives to anyone under 18, and needing age verification at a collection point. Has this legislation really been thought out? How will it be policed? who commits an offense if a shop worker hands a package over? bladed article, what does that mean? blenders are bladed articles, does this mean you can no longer buy these online?

almost all the pictures I see in the newspapers regarding knife crime, usually point to it being a kitchen type knife, I don't think these are being bought online to be used in crime, they are being bought online to replace the ones taken and used! We can ban the online sale of everything, but we still need these items in the home and at work, so they will still be available for use, so what will this part of the act actually stop? It will just impact normal people like you and I from buying what we want at a fair price and in a convenient way.

The second reading for the act is on 27th June and as my MP I ask that questions are raised as to the validity of the inclusion of these sections of the Bill as anyone who has an ounce of sense cannot make a connection to making our streets safer.

I really hope that you take the time to read this as I feel this is a Bill with huge consequences to every one of your constituents and should not be taken lightly.

Yours sincerely

_________________
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools!!
Douglas Adams, 1952-2001 RIP


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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:52 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:59 pm
Posts: 405
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bradaz11 wrote:
HH1 wrote:
I have just got back from 3 day conference in the Netherlands... had a text message to say something was happening re. the consultation.

So, does this mean that my 9mm Lever Release Southern Gun Rifle is about to be banned if this bill becomes law?


yes


Hmmmm, that is a great shame! There are at least 6 people in my various clubs with the SGC Lever-Release 9 mm rifles.


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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:05 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:59 pm
Posts: 405
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bradaz11 wrote:
and added a section on knives, as unlike 20series, I don't feel it is very much needed at all. I think they just need to use the laws they already have and build more prisons
Quote:



I totally agree! They need to take stronger action against people who actually commit crimes by missing knives and guns.
I have been an avid knife collector for several decades ....... I've never felt the urge to misuse any of my knives even though I have quite a number of military types.

As regards my local PM, unfortunately he is a Labour Party PM :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:58 am 
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I tweaked it a bit and sent it to both my MP's.

Added that many shooters of .50 Calibre and other high muzzle energy calibres often travel considerable distances to suitable ranges and that a loss of revenue for rural businesses such a petrol stations and B&B's would occur and that the government would lose revenue from fuel duty.

Also said that if these firearms are banned because they could "potentially be misused" then by that logic any motor vehicle should be banned because it "could potentially" be used to exceed the legal speed limit and everybody should be on a sex offenders register because they "could potentially" commit an offence.......which of course are both ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:16 pm
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I met with my MP yesterday. She didn't seem to be aware of the contents of the bill, which is worrying as its going to be debated on Wednesday.
I went through the government's impact assessment with her and the counter-arguments from the FCSA document.
I also talked about points that have been covered in this forum.

Her PA took notes and she said she would raise my concerns with ministers. she also said I was the only person that had contacted her regarding this, so I don't have much hope to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: New laws coming?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:45 pm 
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Location: Camberley, Surrey
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Brian838 wrote:
I met with my MP yesterday. She didn't seem to be aware of the contents of the bill, which is worrying as its going to be debated on Wednesday.
I went through the government's impact assessment with her and the counter-arguments from the FCSA document.
I also talked about points that have been covered in this forum.

Her PA took notes and she said she would raise my concerns with ministers. she also said I was the only person that had contacted her regarding this, so I don't have much hope to be honest.


Good for you for making the effort. Even if there was only one person from each constituency taking the trouble to do what you did, it would make a difference.

My MP has only ever replied to me with form letters and doesn't even hold a surgery so despite requests I can't get a meeting with him! That's democracy in action.
Needless to say I'm going to be voting for anyone else apart from him in the next local election.

But we still have to try everything we can to stop this Bill, so I'll be firing off several letters to him at every stage of the Bill going through Parliament and everyone else should be doing the same.


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