LBP Question

[Mattnall]

In fact i know of a well known retailer thats STILL selling receivers without the buyer having to have a slot on their FAC

If you know of a dealer selling illegal stuff to the public and don't mention it to him (if it is a genuine misunderstanding) or others (if you suspect dodgy dealings) you could be allowing an activity that when it is eventually found out may lead to broad restrictions or the curtailment of all our livelihoods and pastimes.

But saying that, what receivers are we talking about?
AR lowers could be seen as stocks, also they hold no pressure bearing parts. It has been argued in the past that lowers are not firearm components in the UK.

[Sim G]

If you don’t mind me asking, how? s16 instead of s15 of the 88 Act?

S16 has been replaced by PCA2017, S130(2)b is the relevant part.[/quote]


my bad. I intended to use the colloquial phrase “estates clause” but had a brain fart...

Either way s130, as with s16 previously stipulates rifles and or shotguns. Can’t see how has a “range owner” a lbp can be lent/borrowed?

[Sim G]

But saying that, what receivers are we talking about?
AR lowers could be seen as stocks, also they hold no pressure bearing parts. It has been argued in the past that lowers are not firearm components in the UK.

1968 Act, S57 (1)says;

(1D)For the purposes of subsection (1)(c), each of the following items is a relevant component part in relation to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon—
(a)a barrel, chamber or cylinder,
(b)a frame, body or receiver,
(c)a breech block, bolt or other mechanism for containing the pressure of discharge at the rear of a chamber,


I reckon a lower fits into that and can not see how an RFD could sell one without the appropriate variation or exemption!

[Mattnall]

I wouldn't sell one without someone showing the authority to possess.

However, how can it be different to a stock on a wooden rifle, especially if you remove the fire control parts? My FEO (and the old manager before him) both said it could be seen as non-licensable when the issue came up but neither would commit to it actually being the case.
I for one wouldn't want to be the test case.

Whatever the truth behind this is you're right, it is a mess.

[HH1]

There has been a number of discussions about LBP/LBR and Sect. 1 Shotguns. Some of our club members believe that you can legally use another persons LBP/LBR & Sect 1 Shotguns if you have such categories listed on your FAC. I maintain that you can only use the specific guns listed (serial numbers) on your own FAC.

I raised this issue with our trainers when taking my NRA RCO course and they categorically stated what I believed to be true.

The way things are going I'd rather stick with just shooting my own LBP and section 1 shotguns.

[Thorney]

If you don’t mind me asking, how? s16 instead of s15 of the 88 Act?

It cant, which is why we dont. Estate Rifle rule as you say covers 'rifles' even though in law that term is not defined, the mini rifle range range (amongst other stipulations) also states 'rifles' so again as an LBP you cant use either rule for its loan to a non holder.

Add in RFD rights, where in theory an RFD can 'demo' a gun for sale and it gets even more complicated.

Northants police positively hate LBP's with a passion so to keep an easy life we just dont loan or rent any LBP at all, its just not worth the grief.

[Sim G]

There has been a number of discussions about LBP/LBR and Sect. 1 Shotguns. Some of our club members believe that you can legally use another persons LBP/LBR & Sect 1 Shotguns if you have such categories listed on your FAC. I maintain that you can only use the specific guns listed (serial numbers) on your own FAC.

I raised this issue with our trainers when taking my NRA RCO course and they categorically stated what I believed to be true.

The way things are going I'd rather stick with just shooting my own LBP and section 1 shotguns.

I tend to agree with you. You could take “possession” of a lbp if you had a vacant variation as you have the authority to acquire. But then to shoot it, “treat as your own”, without having your FAC filled out, I can’t see how that can happen. Likewise, if you do not have a vacant slot but own an LBP, you have no authority to acquire, so how can you shoot someone else’s? My opinion is simply, you can’t.

[Sim G]

It cant, which is why we dont. Estate Rifle rule as you say covers 'rifles' even though in law that term is not defined, the mini rifle range range (amongst other stipulations) also states 'rifles' so again as an LBP you cant use either rule for its loan to a non holder.

Add in RFD rights, where in theory an RFD can 'demo' a gun for sale and it gets even more complicated.

Northants police positively hate LBP's with a passion so to keep an easy life we just dont loan or rent any LBP at all, its just not worth the grief.

I obviously got the wrong end of the stick with your post and thought you said you were loaning LBPs... apologies.

[Blackstuff]

In fact i know of a well known retailer thats STILL selling receivers without the buyer having to have a slot on their FAC

If you know of a dealer selling illegal stuff to the public and don't mention it to him (if it is a genuine misunderstanding) or others (if you suspect dodgy dealings) you could be allowing an activity that when it is eventually found out may lead to broad restrictions or the curtailment of all our livelihoods and pastimes.

But saying that, what receivers are we talking about?
AR lowers could be seen as stocks, also they hold no pressure bearing parts. It has been argued in the past that lowers are not firearm components in the UK.

It was upper and lower receviers of AR pattern guns. I've just had a look on the website and it has been updated, although whereas things like the barrel and bolt were suffixed with (FAC slot required), and the receivers weren't, now nothing has such a suffix so things may have changed.

I know it was always a crap-shoot with AR lowers as to whether each FLD regarded them as licensable or not, personally i think the PCA means they are.

[Thorney]

It cant, which is why we dont. Estate Rifle rule as you say covers 'rifles' even though in law that term is not defined, the mini rifle range range (amongst other stipulations) also states 'rifles' so again as an LBP you cant use either rule for its loan to a non holder.

Add in RFD rights, where in theory an RFD can 'demo' a gun for sale and it gets even more complicated.

Northants police positively hate LBP's with a passion so to keep an easy life we just dont loan or rent any LBP at all, its just not worth the grief.

I obviously got the wrong end of the stick with your post and thought you said you were loaning LBPs... apologies.

No problem, its an issue sometimes, our HO number has been delayed due to the 'concern' we were doing that when in fact we never have.