Panorama 20th August

[Warky]

So Edmunds brings in modern firearms stating they are antiques and gets away with it - where was the interview with the UK Border force rep?

[safetyfirst]

It’s all nonsense, any idiot can make a single use gun with a spare weekend and good workshop.

Tackle inequality, poverty, organised crime, human trafficking, those are the causes of violent death, not the tools people use to kill with.

[Dark Skies]

Well, it came across pretty much as I'd expected.
The ease (?) of obtaining an antique firearm that may or may not be capable of firing without blowing up in your hand was emphasized.
That's if you consider gathering some £2.5 grand for an antique easy.

Starline DO actually make .44 Russian cases but getting a business to post them from the USA to the UK is probably going to be a pain. Think on all the ordinary non-pressure bearing parts and accessories we've all tried to buy over the years - and the average anal retentive who has blocked us for fear of coming into conflict with the ATF.

If you carry them in your luggage whilst abroad you're going to raise all sorts of flags on return. So you're going to need someone dodgy to post them here - and, again, flags are likely to be raised this side of the pond. So best bet is to mod existing .44 Special cases

The skills required to convert .44 special cases down to .44 Russian and then reload them were glossed over somewhat - and no mention was made of the stumbling block - you need a FAC to obtain the large pistol primers. NABIS weren't about to put out a How To on air for obvious reasons and left out important information. But this also worked to their advantage as the average couch potato would have the impression that you just buy cases, stuff something flammable in the case, stick in a bullet and 'hey presto - job done'.

No mention that most dealers (at least the ones I've dealt with) expect to see a FAC or something official with your name and address on it to buy powder these days.

Not sure why the "white middle-aged guy" had to fly all the way to the USA (probably not economy either) on the licence payers' dime to buy an expensive antique that may or may not fire / blow up when they could just
get one locally. Especially as there's a thriving illegal arms dealership right on our doorstep in the EU or from Eire or Northern Ireland. You could have something right tasty for the money they were laying out.

Maybe it was just in the interest of balance. After all, we had the black guys shooting other black guys whilst yet more black guys rapped about it thang. So why not even things up a bit and point to the white middle-aged guys being culpable too? "They bought them for us" angle. well, one morally bankrupt RFD did anyhow.

The BASC guy's stand seemed a bit watery. Maybe he had a stronger rebuttal but it was edited out. Or maybe he was just not accustomed to the wily ways of the BBC on a mission.

I'd like to see a Panorama program showing how easy it is to illegally smuggle decent firearms into the UK from Europe - for a balanced comparison. However, that'd be contrary to the interests of the BBC and NABIS so chances of happening ... My Yank ex-wife used to say "wish in one hand and 5h1t in the other - see which fills the fastest." About right I reckon.

[safetyfirst]

Yeah that’d be a good programme but the people making it would be arrested sadly.

I dunno, did they say how many crimes had been committed with antique firearms?

[MrD]

Starline DO actually make .44 Russian cases but getting a business to post them from the USA to the UK is probably going to be a pain.

Not wishing to support the programme's views entirely, but Kranks stock the above

Donald

[dromia]

If you load for and shoot an obsolete calibre firearm without it being entered on an FAC you are committing a crime.

If obsolete calibre firearms are made section 1 and you acquire and off ticket firearm load for and shoot it without it being entered on an FAC you are committing crimes.

The laws are already in place.

This is just malicious and vindictive persecution of law abiding people for no purpose under the pretendy guise of public safety.

[Chapuis]

The BASC guy's stand seemed a bit watery. Maybe he had a stronger rebuttal but it was edited out. Or maybe he was just not accustomed to the wily ways of the BBC on a mission.

BASC?
Who was that, I don't recall seeing a BASC representative in the programme. Perhaps I fell asleep after all the programme wasn't all that enthralling and didn't say anything that we didn't know.

I hope that the national ballistics lab are not going to waste that nice nickel plated Smith that the BBC paid so much of our licence fees for.

As dromia says the laws are already in place.

[Warky]

Direct from a NABIS press release from the detective interviewed on the show:

"It's not an easy task making obsolete calibre bullets fit antique guns".

http://www.nabis.police.uk/news/Firearm ... Conspiracy

[Daryll]

Direct from a NABIS press release from the detective interviewed on the show:

"It's not an easy task making obsolete calibre bullets fit antique guns".

http://www.nabis.police.uk/news/Firearm ... Conspiracy

That NABIS document also highlights a problem.. is states that Edmunds "smuggled" a Colt revolver in...

So all this fuss about "loopholes" is blown out of the water... Crims will just smuggle them in instead of brazenly walking through Customs with them..

[Dark Skies]

The BASC guy's stand seemed a bit watery. Maybe he had a stronger rebuttal but it was edited out. Or maybe he was just not accustomed to the wily ways of the BBC on a mission.

BASC?
Who was that, I don't recall seeing a BASC representative in the programme. Perhaps I fell asleep after all the programme wasn't all that enthralling and didn't say anything that we didn't know. ...

I thought he was from BASC but I may be wrong - it appeared in sub-title when he was first introduced. But I may have misread it - I was priming cases at the time.