Talk about being thrown under a Bus...

[Dark Skies]

To be honest I don't think the average person in the street ever gives a second thought to gun ownership in this country.
I don't think the majority of them are even aware that it's still legal to own and shoot firearms. Most have no interest in them, never see them except in films, and whenever the subject comes up probably associate shooting sports with shotguns and game shooting. You know, 'posh' people wearing tweed.
"All guns were banned in this country after Dunblane, surely?"

'Public concern' is a popular phrase trundled out by red tops, the police, and government for their own agendas.
We're regularly told Joe and Jane Pleb are 'concerned' about firearm ownership and have come to accept the lie that they're perpetually worried about the 'threat' we potentially pose.
In reality they're far more concerned about some hoody nicking their phone or stabbing them in the street.
Unfortunately it seems the authorities can't do anything about those real issues so they have focussed on legitimate sportsmen and women. Non-existent 'problems' are far easier to 'tackle'.

[dromia]

Agreed that the great unwashed rarely or never think about gun ownership, but if they did they would think it was bad and shouldn't be allowed. In actual fact the majority probably think that guns are banned anyway, I often meet people who are surprised and shocked that people are allowed to have guns legally.

It is this undercurrent that the active anti's in our institutions rely upon to support albeit tacitly their agenda.

As always it is about being seen to be doing something rather than actually tackling the real threats and problems which languish in the "too difficult" pile.

[Thorney]

What we need is either one of our bodies to act as a lobbying company or a new body to be created who's soul role is to lobby parliament, there is no other way.

At the moment we have a hostile police force and a hostile/apathetic public. All it needs is the anti gun owners to make a small noise or some idiot to do something stupid (like it or not every segment of society as assholes, even shooters) or a self serving politician to want to make a name for themselves (which less face it - that describes all of them) and we are on the back foot with our national bodies scrabbling about like defendants who've just been served papers, its pathetic.

Look at every other sector that has a poor image - every single one spends significant time, effort and money pushing the common cause as an on going plan, all we do is react to the latest attempt to curtail our sport and then look all baleful when another kind of firearm is taken away.

If the BASC, NRA, NSRA and every other set of letters took £10 from the subs per person and stuck it into a fund to be used solely for lobbying parliament looking to expand out sport we'd be on a positive footing, but that of course requires a bunch of people all with their only little fiefdoms to think more of the sport than their own little World. Anyone want odds on that happening?

[BooBoo]

Dromia - you make many excellent points in your various posts and they reflect the position that we now find ourself in.

As Thorney has already said, if every certificate holder in this country dropped just £10 into a fund for active lobbying then this would equate to something like three times the amount that the NRA of America spend in any given year on the same.

Whilst I am also a member of the NRA (and like the FCSA back their efforts to the hilt), the fact remains that the NRA are not "National" because unlike America, they are not the unified representative of all shooters. Bisley Gun Club has been bounded around before... and whilst I'm not quite sure that this is a fair description, neither in National.

The other problem with the NRA is that they are also a charity... and as such are limited as to political capacity.

Politicians are uniquely sensitive about certain things, including their own fragility. Shooting has to be seen as a vote winner and not a way of making a name for oneself at the expense of some of the most law abiding. To be fair to Cameron, he stood up after Cumbria and said that everything will be reviewed in slow time. The media were left with nowhere to go... with the end result being that the double scattergun owner in Devon or the 22 rabbit shooter in Dorset did not take the hit for the actions of some mad person up in Cumbria.

The part that really upsets me is being faced with the prospect of once again having to hand over my personal possessions for political plus points and for NO OTHER REASON. No person should face this position without conviction at court, as that is the removal of a right to quiet enjoyment of possessions... anything less is just state sponsored THEFT... One chip away at a time.

Great emphasis is placed on consultation with the likes of the GCN, even though they are only one or two people.

800,000 Certificate holders should be able to do so much better!

[MistAgain]

Dromia - you make many excellent points in your various posts and they reflect the position that we now find ourself in.

As Thorney has already said, if every certificate holder in this country dropped just £10 into a fund for active lobbying then this would equate to something like three times the amount that the NRA of America spend in any given year on the same.

Whilst I am also a member of the NRA (and like the FCSA back their efforts to the hilt), the fact remains that the NRA are not "National" because unlike America, they are not the unified representative of all shooters. Bisley Gun Club has been bounded around before... and whilst I'm not quite sure that this is a fair description, neither in National.

The other problem with the NRA is that they are also a charity... and as such are limited as to political capacity.

Politicians are uniquely sensitive about certain things, including their own fragility. Shooting has to be seen as a vote winner and not a way of making a name for oneself at the expense of some of the most law abiding. To be fair to Cameron, he stood up after Cumbria and said that everything will be reviewed in slow time. The media were left with nowhere to go... with the end result being that the double scattergun owner in Devon or the 22 rabbit shooter in Dorset did not take the hit for the actions of some mad person up in Cumbria.

The part that really upsets me is being faced with the prospect of once again having to hand over my personal possessions for political plus points and for NO OTHER REASON. No person should face this position without conviction at court, as that is the removal of a right to quiet enjoyment of possessions... anything less is just state sponsored THEFT... One chip away at a time.

Great emphasis is placed on consultation with the likes of the GCN, even though they are only one or two people.

800,000 Certificate holders should be able to do so much better!

I believe at one time the GCN had 7 members . I think they also claimed a few years back that they had over 1 Million supporters , but I could be wrong on this.

There might be 800,000 Certificate holders , the problem is , are there enough of them in any of the 650 constituencies to make a difference .

I doubt if even 10% of certificate holders would give £10.00 to fund lobbying .

[BooBoo]

And that is why we need to get political, because lobbying works on several fronts...

Personally, I would love to know exactly what happened in the 50 cal theft up north... because the cynic in me looks at the various inferences made on this and other forums with emphasis on the gaps.

In some ways, the NRA do the above a disservice, because they hold themselves out to be National and thus representative when they are not. As a charity, they are also unable to fight the fight on all fronts.

May be the BASC and some welsh pheasant shooters are now more willing to become involved - smell the coffee...

Sadly, I am prevented from personally becoming more political... but I would gladly throw some cash (what little I now have as a public servant) to challenge unjust political expediency at the expense of the law abiding (when you can guarantee that it will be portrayed by the powers that be as having been a response to elevated levels of gun crime).

[Thorney]

The charity thing irks me really, there is nothing to stop a charity from engaging in political lobbying so long as it has other roles as well, its not hard to confirm, read the charities act legislation, it even says that political lobbying is an accepted part of a charities roles.

[Thorney]

Dromia - you make many excellent points in your various posts and they reflect the position that we now find ourself in.

As Thorney has already said, if every certificate holder in this country dropped just £10 into a fund for active lobbying then this would equate to something like three times the amount that the NRA of America spend in any given year on the same.

Whilst I am also a member of the NRA (and like the FCSA back their efforts to the hilt), the fact remains that the NRA are not "National" because unlike America, they are not the unified representative of all shooters. Bisley Gun Club has been bounded around before... and whilst I'm not quite sure that this is a fair description, neither in National.

The other problem with the NRA is that they are also a charity... and as such are limited as to political capacity.

Politicians are uniquely sensitive about certain things, including their own fragility. Shooting has to be seen as a vote winner and not a way of making a name for oneself at the expense of some of the most law abiding. To be fair to Cameron, he stood up after Cumbria and said that everything will be reviewed in slow time. The media were left with nowhere to go... with the end result being that the double scattergun owner in Devon or the 22 rabbit shooter in Dorset did not take the hit for the actions of some mad person up in Cumbria.

The part that really upsets me is being faced with the prospect of once again having to hand over my personal possessions for political plus points and for NO OTHER REASON. No person should face this position without conviction at court, as that is the removal of a right to quiet enjoyment of possessions... anything less is just state sponsored THEFT... One chip away at a time.

Great emphasis is placed on consultation with the likes of the GCN, even though they are only one or two people.

800,000 Certificate holders should be able to do so much better!

I believe at one time the GCN had 7 members . I think they also claimed a few years back that they had over 1 Million supporters , but I could be wrong on this.

There might be 800,000 Certificate holders , the problem is , are there enough of them in any of the 650 constituencies to make a difference .

I doubt if even 10% of certificate holders would give £10.00 to fund lobbying .

Even 10% would generate a lobbying fund of £800k.

[artiglio]

I’ve also been confused about the link between a charity and political lobbying etc, if you look at the likes of RSPCA or SHELTER they are both politically active , and in the case of Shelter much of its work is political lobbying.
I was once told that in the NRA’s case , part of the issue is that political lobbying is considered to be a rather tenuous extension of its stated aims which form part of its charitable status.
However in this instance the NRA have been trying to influence the passage of the bill. In a previous post the question is asked as to wether 800,000 certificate holders are sufficient to sway political opinion, the answer is emphatically yes, but only if the vast majority get involved, given that i’d guess less than 1% made any real effort then obviously the answer is no.
Representation by the likes of NRA , BASC, BSSC, is only as good as the strength of the membership and the support they receive from the shooting community.
Until such time as there is a united and concerted effort from those that shoot, legislation continue to become more restrictive, you only have to look at the issues raised in the course of this bill so far to see the likely areas to be considered next.
No doubt new legislation will concentrate on small sections of shooting related activity and in the absence of a united front by shooters be all the easier to get through.
Its all very well saying most shooters won’t contribute £10 , if they won’t all take 20 mins and supply a sheet of paper envelope and stamp, raising cash is the least of the problem.

[Blackstuff]

I disagree, recreational shooting does not have to be competitive, it is target shooting.

I don't think anyone said it HAD to be! I've expended far more rifle rounds informally than when someone was socring my target and i value both the same.

Policy is made by the baying of the mob.

Yes this is the problem, and when the mob is forced to think about shooting they're more likely to be sympathetic towards an Olympians 'need' for a gun than me plinking at paper in Sunderland.