Group sizes - a question for you ex- tank crews / artillery

[breacher]

We measure our rifles accuracy in terms of group size in moa.

I have always wondered how a battle tanks main gun compares in terms of group size measured in moa

And likewise for anti-tank artillery ( if it still exists - or has it been replaced by shoulder fired rockets)

[Ovenpaa]

I have seen first hand the accuracy of the 35mm Bushmaster on a foreign combat vehicle with practice rounds and they were consistently bunging them into a nice group on a 1.2m frame at 1000 metres

[Maggot]

Depends what you were firing. HESH....Hmmmm.

FSAPDS ouch (flies flat and hits hard).

Not sure you would have mcuh to group on after the first K kill

[breacher]

Depends what you were firing. HESH....Hmmmm.

FSAPDS ouch (flies flat and hits hard).

Not sure you would have mcuh to group on after the first K kill

Ok - bearing in mind the destruction maybe I should rephrase the question.

A good rifleman with a good rifle and glass will get a first round hit on a target as small as 3" at 600 yards.

What would be the smallest target a tank gun would be able to be sure of a first round hit on ?

[Rockhopper]

60cm at 3000 meters for the Rheinmetall DM53 APFSDS round as fired by some versions of the Leopard Tank. It does seem to depend on the round rather than the gun though as there are some that can be steered in flight. Most tank main guns are smooth bore these days as well.

[3bravo]

1991, Scots D.G. Challenger, APFSDS, 4,700 metres one round one hit, total destruction, no need to measure group.
Best all round tank, gun, combination in the world, none ever knocked out on battlefield as the result of enemy attack, unlike German and American pretenders to the throne.

[snayperskaya]

1991, Scots D.G. Challenger, APFSDS, 4,700 metres one round one hit, total destruction, no need to measure group.
Best all round tank, gun, combination in the world, none ever knocked out on battlefield as the result of enemy attack, unlike German and American pretenders to the throne.

Wasn't a Challenger 2 knocked out in the town of al-Amarah, in southern Iraq, when a Russian-made PG-29V tandem rocket-propelled grenade fired from an RPG-29 defeated the ERA and penetrated the driver's cabin.One crew member lost half his left foot and two others were injured.

[3bravo]

Snayperskaya the tank was hit multiple times and initially disabled repair and recovery was done on the battlefield whilst under fire, it returned to full active service within 24 hours.
Crew members were injured in particular the driver, mainly due to cost cutting by MOD, in not providing upgraded armour for the hull

[snayperskaya]

Snayperskaya the tank was hit multiple times and initially disabled repair and recovery was done on the battlefield whilst under fire, it returned to full active service within 24 hours.
Crew members were injured in particular the driver, mainly due to cost cutting by MOD, in not providing upgraded armour for the hull

I see

As good as the Chally is I wonder, in the interests of science, how it would fair against something like a 3BM69 "Vacuum-1" or 3BM70 "Vacuum-2".

As a sidenote I used to build CV12 Challenger and CV8 Warrior engines for a living.

[Musclebob]

The battleship New Jersey could put 15 rounds into a 220 yard group at 34,000 yards. That's about .6 MOA