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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:14 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:21 am
Posts: 636
Location: Berkshire
Home club or Range: LPSC and NRA
dromia wrote:
Well my clubs have never heard from the couldrey fellow and as far as shooting in the north is concerned he might as well not exist for all the difference he is making, I am glad that your MoD ranges are fit for civilian purpose most of ours are not. Good ranges in one area does not justify bad ranges in other areas. So how many regional ranges has this fellow actually started himself rather than piggy backing on the success and work of others, Where is their national strategic plan with outcomes for the development of shooting, that would be an essential tool surely for any "national" organisation. What about regional meetings how often to they happen so that he can learn and know issues, I have yet to hear of one in the NE.

When I see the nra making a meaningful difference to the target shooting then I will review my opinion, the nra nationally (along with the other national shysters) let us get shafted on every turn, Dr's fee's, FAC fees, two RCO courses needed now for no other apparent reason than than the MoD said their course was longer with no reference to content, lever release ban, firearms certification departments making up firearms law as they go along with no challenge, multiple insurance costs with other national and body membership insurances, etc etc etc. They may be writing the odd letter and attending the odd meeting but when push comes to shove it is the lack of results that shows their lack of effectiveness. For all the "success" their propaganda tool the journal tells us the reality is very different for many shooters. All well and good telling us how wonderful Bisley is but it is a place too remote for many to get to and the success there with failure elsewhere is just rubbing salt into wounds for those that struggle will real MoD range issues with no support.

So the nra is now Bisley shooting club with an outreach worker, now that is very "national".

Just for the record I am not criticising this couldrey, one person is totally insufficient resource for the scale of the task, one person out of all the Bisley staff for the rest of the country just illustrates further the contempt that the nra holds the rest of the non Bisley visiting shooters with.


https://nra.org.uk/?s=regional+ranges+manager

He may only be one person but he is making a difference. Why not contact him to see what can be done in your area?


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:52 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:57 am
Posts: 17925
Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club.
Feedback to the NRA is given about the issues by many regional club secretaries to no avail yet, if the nra are not aware of the situation here then it is not for the want of trying to tell them.

Surely as a national organisation it also incumbent 'pon them to know what is happening across the country, it should be a two way exchange surely? Just another indicator of their national failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:32 am
Posts: 1479
Strangely Brown wrote:
Chapuis wrote:
I heard a story last week, I don't know how true it is so I can't comment on the accuracy of the tale but it would worry me if there is some truth in it, perhaps you know something of the matter?

The story as told to me was that the NRA decided to increase the annual rent for the Artists Club, the increase demanded was quite substantial. Obviously The Artists were not pleased and it eventually resulted in a legal resolution by the courts. The increase in rent was set at an additional £2,000 per annum but it cost the NRA around £38,000 in legal fees as they were not awarded costs. So possibly 18 years to recover what it cost to increase the rent!

Like I said I really don't know how true this is, but if there is some truth in the story it's a sorry state of affairs that it ever came to this.


There has been much reporting, (and misreporting) on this subject in the national press and on the internet. I would suggest both parties could have done a lot better if they were prepared to listen to each other at the very start of the rent review.


Mick I never saw any thing about this in the national press but just did a quick internet search and it came up with the story reported in a local Surrey newspaper and a statement put out by the NRA. The amounts mentioned as paid by the NRA in legal fees with regard to the re-negotiation of the leases for various clubs at Bisley is absolutely astounding, far more than I could ever have imagined and makes me now believe that what I was told about the Artists club is actually totally credible, (previously I was slightly dubious). As is often the case the only ones who seem to have benefited from this whole affair are the lawyers.

As you say it is possible that this could have been resolved much earlier and without the need to resort to the courts if all the parties involved had entered into meaningful negotiation at an early stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:15 am
Posts: 390
Location: New Forest
Home club or Range: NRA
Chapuis wrote:
Mick I never saw any thing about this in the national press but just did a quick internet search and it came up with the story reported in a local Surrey newspaper and a statement put out by the NRA. The amounts mentioned as paid by the NRA in legal fees with regard to the re-negotiation of the leases for various clubs at Bisley is absolutely astounding, far more than I could ever have imagined and makes me now believe that what I was told about the Artists club is actually totally credible, (previously I was slightly dubious). As is often the case the only ones who seem to have benefited from this whole affair are the lawyers.

As you say it is possible that this could have been resolved much earlier and without the need to resort to the courts if all the parties involved had entered into meaningful negotiation at an early stage.


It was in The Times, the Artists made plenty of play regarding the SAS connection which if you wanted the publicity was the way to go, even though that connection is a rather tenuous one these days.

The problem apparently started when an agreement was struck with a previous NRA employee who then left and none of the paper work could be found, enter then Mr Mercer who is looking at things with a new hat on rather than the nod & wink of yesteryears NRA way of doing things.

I believe the huge costings were due in part to test the legality of who actually owned some of the buildings which were paid for by subscriptions and donations by the now long dead volunteer force.
A can of worms on both sides of the argument, although I do have a lot of sympathy for the Artists who do a cracking good job on camp.
So good I'm having lunch in there tomorrow! cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 7:12 am
Posts: 416
Quarters wrote:
I've been every got about 12 years.

Today was by far and away the smallest and quietest I've by a long way.

Bit surprised


Seems the NRA do not agree with you .............

Following the success of the Trade Fair at the Phoenix Meeting

The above is from an email just sent out by the NRA !


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:43 pm
Posts: 1282
Location: Bisley
Home club or Range: NRA Bisley
MistAgain wrote:
FredB wrote:
The new crew are a brath of fresh air, but still learning.
Fred


Mercer has been there 6 years .

I doubt if any council member has less than 10 years NRA membership .

Hardly a new crew .


There are 12 Council members who serve, by the rules and subject to exceptions, a maximum of 6 years. There are 3 exceptions. The Chairman may serve 6 years as Chairman on top of 6 years as a trustee. Subject to being re-elected on a 3-yearly basis, the Treasurer and the Chairman of the Disciplinary Body may serve without time limit.

The Treasurer stood down a few months ago, and the Disciplinary Chairman has been in post less than 6 years. The Chairman stands down next year.

Volunteers needed to put up with the crap thrown at them for no reward at all other than the personal knowledge of having done their best. Anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:43 pm
Posts: 1282
Location: Bisley
Home club or Range: NRA Bisley
dromia wrote:
Well my clubs have never heard from the couldrey fellow


1. Which clubs do you speak for?
2. We agree we need more Nic Couldreys. One has to start somewhere. It takes time to go from zero to somewhere.
3. Nic, like me, deals with a bunch of stuff that cannot be discussed or even mentioned. We are a bit like sewage engineers (I happen to have that in my training) and financial security experts (Nic happens to have that in his experience) - nobody notices until we are overwhelmed and then we get blamed for all the s*** and losses even though we only have one arsehole and one wallet same as the rest of you.


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 5:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:57 am
Posts: 17925
Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club.
'Tis the organisation I condemn Iain not the individuals therein.

All we hear about is the success of Bisley whilst on the MoD ranges I use things are falling apart.

I have never said that individual NRA workers are not working hard and have said on here that resourcing is an issue but how long do we have to wait to see the promised "Bisley benefit" actually make a difference nationally to the plight of shooters who use MoD ranges.

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