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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:09 am 
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Posts: 433
Daryll wrote:
25-06 wrote:
I found vast variations to prices as in one item I was after on many items, as in one item was £35.00 on one stall, £32.50 on another and £28.00 on the third, its not really a cheap way of buying there when the Internet is out there now on everything really, I went really to avoid paying postage on Lead Bullets which is sooo expensive, but I did hear from one stall holder that it was to be £800 ish per day for his original idea...at that rate its going to be hard to carry the event of a small trade fair on, retailers will have to sell vast amounts to nett their way out of stall hire alone let alone the rest of the expense. At that rate it will or could be history, Saturday afternoon was dead..


Yes, there aren't many "show specials" any more...

My son was looking to buy a press (Lee Challenger Breechlock) to start reloading... the only one we saw on a stall was £99. While we were at the stall my son googled and found CDSG sell them for £69... a no-brainer..


To be fair , did you ask the stall holder if that was a mistake , or did the price include a specific set of dies ( as I think it did )

Suggested retail for that press is I believe about £84.00 .
Two online dealers who are undercutting that price are also direct importers who buy at Distributer price to undercut everyone else , they are not interested in giving a service to your local dealer .

When Tim Hannam was the sole importer for Lee he did offer extra discounts for dealers who wanted stock for Pistol AD , but with conditions .
The same discount was available to any other dealer whose account was in good standing , who paid with order and did not advertise stupid discounts.


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 11:46 am 
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Location: Co. Durham
Home club or Range: N.E. P.S.G., Mayfair Shooting Centre, 3 Counties Sporting Club, Galloway Small Arms Club and various IPSC clubs around the country
Having never been to the Phoenix before, excuse my ignorance, but isn't more of a gun shoot, than a gun show? i.e. the purpose of it is primarily to host a large series of competitions and the show part of it just grew on it as a side? Rather than it being a 'show' in of itself?

If its mainly gallery rifle shooting its unlikely to attract a great deal of innovation given the design has been out so long for most of the guns used and their accesories and there haven't been any legislative curveballs thrown to force it to happen (with the exception of the SGC gun). And if they are pricing out the smaller dealers where little innovations come from it seems like a recipe for it shrinking every year :bad:

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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Location: KENT
TattooedGun, in the scheme of things I very much doubt that the electronic targets are in need of subsidising i’d be very surprised if they do not make a contribution to the nra’s surplus, ( or if they don’t already soon will) just as i’d be similarly surprised that the “stupidly expensive” mobile homes are subsidised by the NRA, yes the sites were expensive to develop but the NRA charge those willing to pay substantial sums to take up the lease and the annual charges, that the spencer site sold out and the new development is apparently selling well shows that a need is being fullfilled. As i said before short of knowing what the costs are to put on the “ fair” its difficult to know what the profits are.
We’d all like an event that has bargains for all and is a shopwindow for new innovation and dealers, but its effectively a thing of the past, we all have the same thing available to us on command via the internet and a search engine.
Just about everyone atending the show will have checked out what the best price is online for a given product, they may well choose to pay a bit more for the convenience of the shop experience but it won’t be much more, an internet retailer with little or nothing in the way of a traditional shop is always going to be able to offer lower prices and is also effectively open 24/7.
Some things have had their day, at which point if you still want it you have to pay the extra.


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:26 pm 
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Location: Newcastle UponTyne
Home club or Range: Louisa Centre
Couple of my friends went for the week as they act as ROs as well as shoot. I fancied some N320 powder but my friend reported back that he didn't see any for sale at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Location: The Lincolnshire Wolds
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Bargain or no bargain, the atmosphere has gone.

It is all well and good to develop, build it and they will come is one expression, however what is lost in the process?

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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Location: Sutherland and Co Durham
Home club or Range: The Highlands of Scotland. Cycling Proficiency 1964. Felton & District rifle club. HBSA full voting member. Durham Constabulary Gun Club Catterick. Teesdale Pistol and Rifle club.
In the 21st Century value is only ever measured by profitability.

Yes the NRA is a money making machine and is re-investing in Bisley and this would be fine if it was only Bisley shooting club.

However it still claims to being a national organisation however it is doing very little to help rifle shooting beyond Bisley and its environs where full bore shooting on MoD ranges is dying on its feet, hard to get bookings, last minute cancellations, stroppy range wardens, poor or non existent targetry, frames that are a health hazard when they do work and increasing meaningless bureaucracy means that full bore target shooting beyond 100yrds is dying on it feet.

In days gone by I used to visit Bisley for three meetings a year to shoot and thoroughly enjoyed it however it was along trip and a good trade fair was all part of the experience, I then went for the last three years as a trader and enjoyed that too although it was very hard work I made a modest profit or broke even at all events but the costs were escalating to a level where that was not viable.

If the NRA would just come honest and call itself what it truly has become Bisley shooting ground and stop perpetrating the sham that is is interested in promoting target shooting beyond Bisley at a profit then I think there would be far less expectation from shooters for it to do things to help shooting and gun ownership that it blatantly has no interest in.

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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 1:36 pm 
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Location: Cambridgeshire
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Blackstuff wrote:
Having never been to the Phoenix before, excuse my ignorance, but isn't more of a gun shoot, than a gun show? i.e. the purpose of it is primarily to host a large series of competitions and the show part of it just grew on it as a side? Rather than it being a 'show' in of itself?.........


Yes, it is mainly a competition event, but as it gathers a lot of shooters in one place over a long weekend, it makes sense for traders to have stalls selling consumables/gun parts/bits and bobs.

It used to be a good place to stock up with powders, primers and bullets at "show special" prices, but the prices I saw this weekend were around what i can pay locally.

I haven't competed at Phoenix for the last 3 years or so, but I have gone down to browse and shop... based on this years stalls, I probably won't bother with the 5 hr round-trip again unless its to compete...

MistAgain.. no, that was the bare press.


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 3:34 pm 
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christel wrote:
Bargain or no bargain, the atmosphere has gone.

It is all well and good to develop, build it and they will come is one expression, however what is lost in the process?


Exactly my point. It's the atmosphere that I miss most, it simply isn't there anymore.
It was absolutely no exegaration when I said the Pistol A.D. meetings used to be buzzing, actually more like electrifying. It was something you really looked forward to attending each year. The Phoenix meeting is simply a collection of much reduced competitions with a few trade stands thrown in by comparison, not a festival of shooting.

Frankly I think that I have been to my last, I probably won't bother again.


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:11 pm 
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Posts: 433
Chapuis wrote:
christel wrote:
Bargain or no bargain, the atmosphere has gone.

It is all well and good to develop, build it and they will come is one expression, however what is lost in the process?


Exactly my point. It's the atmosphere that I miss most, it simply isn't there anymore.
It was absolutely no exegaration when I said the Pistol A.D. meetings used to be buzzing, actually more like electrifying. It was something you really looked forward to attending each year. The Phoenix meeting is simply a collection of much reduced competitions with a few trade stands thrown in by comparison, not a festival of shooting.

Frankly I think that I have been to my last, I probably won't bother again.


Pistol AD meetings and the trade fair were an experience not to be missed .
The NPA realised from the start that the competitions needed a trade show to survive and the trade show needed the competitions to survive . And both did survive and grow , even though towards the end the NPA got greedy .

Phoenix competitions will stagger on without the trade show , but if the Phoenix concept is to grow it needs more competitors , more RO's , more range space and a properly organised and run trade show .


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 Post subject: Re: Pheonix Gun Fair
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:06 pm 
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But was it the NPA who got greedy MistAgain, or was it really the NRA?

At the time we were always hearing stories that the NRA didn't really want the Pistol A.D. meeting and that they were only just tolerating the NPA. Also that the NRA were continually upping the price that the NPA were paying to hold the event. In fact pretty much the same as what we hear is still going on with large rent increases to various Bisley based clubs at the present time.


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