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Pheonix Gun Fair
https://full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35923
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Author:  Sim G [ Wed May 29, 2019 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

The NRA were a different animal at the time of the Pistol AD days. Full of nasty old men who regarded pistols as the tool of the gangster and rifle shooting the pastime of gentlemen...

Now the current NRA knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing. BoC....

Author:  FredB [ Wed May 29, 2019 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

I never found the NRA to be against the NPA and the anno dommini meeting. Indifferent: yes, but anti: no.
When the pistol ban was passed in parliament, the NRA had a temporary extension on Melville range. As the bill went through, they sanctioned the proper extended building that stands today. They were quick to spot the potential for gallery rifle shooting.
I found that the NRA were a totally frustrating organsiation to deal with, not because they were anti anything, but because the managment, being largely retired military peopl, only knew how to waste money, not the spend it wisely and certaily not how to make it. The new crew are a brath of fresh air, but still learning.
Fred

Author:  Chapuis [ Thu May 30, 2019 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

FredB wrote:
I never found the NRA to be against the NPA and the anno dommini meeting. Indifferent: yes, but anti: no.
When the pistol ban was passed in parliament, the NRA had a temporary extension on Melville range. As the bill went through, they sanctioned the proper extended building that stands today. They were quick to spot the potential for gallery rifle shooting.
I found that the NRA were a totally frustrating organsiation to deal with, not because they were anti anything, but because the managment, being largely retired military peopl, only knew how to waste money, not the spend it wisely and certaily not how to make it. The new crew are a brath of fresh air, but still learning.
Fred


Yes Fred "a totally frustrating organisation to deal with", I would certainly agree with that comment. I also agree that some good works have been carried out at Bisley in recent years but I do wonder at what cost?

I heard a story last week, I don't know how true it is so I can't comment on the accuracy of the tale but it would worry me if there is some truth in it, perhaps you know something of the matter?

The story as told to me was that the NRA decided to increase the annual rent for the Artists Club, the increase demanded was quite substantial. Obviously The Artists were not pleased and it eventually resulted in a legal resolution by the courts. The increase in rent was set at an additional £2,000 per annum but it cost the NRA around £38,000 in legal fees as they were not awarded costs. So possibly 18 years to recover what it cost to increase the rent!

Like I said I really don't know how true this is, but if there is some truth in the story it's a sorry state of affairs that it ever came to this.

Author:  Strangely Brown [ Thu May 30, 2019 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

Chapuis wrote:
I heard a story last week, I don't know how true it is so I can't comment on the accuracy of the tale but it would worry me if there is some truth in it, perhaps you know something of the matter?

The story as told to me was that the NRA decided to increase the annual rent for the Artists Club, the increase demanded was quite substantial. Obviously The Artists were not pleased and it eventually resulted in a legal resolution by the courts. The increase in rent was set at an additional £2,000 per annum but it cost the NRA around £38,000 in legal fees as they were not awarded costs. So possibly 18 years to recover what it cost to increase the rent!

Like I said I really don't know how true this is, but if there is some truth in the story it's a sorry state of affairs that it ever came to this.


There has been much reporting, (and misreporting) on this subject in the national press and on the internet. I would suggest both parties could have done a lot better if they were prepared to listen to each other at the very start of the rent review.

Author:  MistAgain [ Thu May 30, 2019 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

FredB wrote:
The new crew are a brath of fresh air, but still learning.
Fred


Mercer has been there 6 years .

I doubt if any council member has less than 10 years NRA membership .

Hardly a new crew .

Author:  FredB [ Thu May 30, 2019 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

In the context of my career. at six years I had just finished my apprenticeship.
Fred

Author:  RDC [ Thu May 30, 2019 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

Chapuis wrote:

I heard a story last week...
...Like I said I really don't know how true this is, but if there is some truth in the story it's a sorry state of affairs that it ever came to this.


if rumour is to be believed, the NRA also tried claiming the Canadian Lodge as NRA property and it's resulted in a diplomatic incident.

Who knows how true it is.

Author:  MistAgain [ Thu May 30, 2019 7:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

FredB wrote:
In the context of my career. at six years I had just finished my apprenticeship.
Fred


Mercer had been CEO at 3 other organisations before he joined the NRA . He should have been up to speed in a matter of weeks.

In theory the Trustee's give Mercer a broad outline of what they want him to do , as to a lessor extent do the Council.

He should then be able to carry out his duties as instructed whilst at the same time giving trustee's and council ideas and feedback.

As it would seem that he has cost the NRA a tidy sum in legal expenses , this would suggest that both the trustees and council
need to keep him on a tighter rein.

Author:  Racalman [ Thu May 30, 2019 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

dromia wrote:
However it still claims to being a national organisation however it is doing very little to help rifle shooting beyond Bisley and its environs where full bore shooting on MoD ranges is dying on its feet, hard to get bookings, last minute cancellations, stroppy range wardens, poor or non existent targetry, frames that are a health hazard when they do work and increasing meaningless bureaucracy means that full bore target shooting beyond 100yrds is dying on it feet.

I think you are being unfairly critical. The NRA has a ranges manager (Nic Couldrey) who is working hard to get disused ranges around the country reopened.

I shoot regularly on MoD ranges (Otmoor, Longmoor, Ash, Henley Park, Stoney Castle) and find the ladies in the booking cell to be be very helpful, as are the chaps in the Range Offices. The TAOs do their best to give us the targets we want and my only complaint would be that some of the Hythe frames could do with a lick of grease.

Author:  dromia [ Fri May 31, 2019 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pheonix Gun Fair

Well my clubs have never heard from the couldrey fellow and as far as shooting in the north is concerned he might as well not exist for all the difference he is making, I am glad that your MoD ranges are fit for civilian purpose most of ours are not. Good ranges in one area does not justify bad ranges in other areas. So how many regional ranges has this fellow actually started himself rather than piggy backing on the success and work of others, Where is their national strategic plan with outcomes for the development of shooting, that would be an essential tool surely for any "national" organisation. What about regional meetings how often to they happen so that he can learn and know issues, I have yet to hear of one in the NE.

When I see the nra making a meaningful difference to the target shooting then I will review my opinion, the nra nationally (along with the other national shysters) let us get shafted on every turn, Dr's fee's, FAC fees, two RCO courses needed now for no other apparent reason than than the MoD said their course was longer with no reference to content, lever release ban, firearms certification departments making up firearms law as they go along with no challenge, multiple insurance costs with other national and body membership insurances, etc etc etc. They may be writing the odd letter and attending the odd meeting but when push comes to shove it is the lack of results that shows their lack of effectiveness. For all the "success" their propaganda tool the journal tells us the reality is very different for many shooters. All well and good telling us how wonderful Bisley is but it is a place too remote for many to get to and the success there with failure elsewhere is just rubbing salt into wounds for those that struggle will real MoD range issues with no support.

So the nra is now Bisley shooting club with an outreach worker, now that is very "national".

Just for the record I am not criticising this couldrey, one person is totally insufficient resource for the scale of the task, one person out of all the Bisley staff for the rest of the country just illustrates further the contempt that the nra holds the rest of the non Bisley visiting shooters with.

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