Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

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1066
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#31 Post by 1066 »

Pippin89 wrote:
1066 wrote:Pity there's not a RFD (Lite) or "Gun tinkerer" category - Say someone who tunes airguns - some must inevitably show above 12ftlbs when tested, so technically illegal, or someone wants to buy a barrel blank before getting rid of the old barrel. Yes, I know you can apply for a variation etc. every time but it could be a lot easier in some cases.
I'm sure I have heard an American talking about them having something like this. He was making a stock for a friend and said he registered as a gunsmith or something to make it easier for him holding his friends rifle. Obviously America varies from state to state.... but something like that would make sense!
As long as it wasn't abused to the point of putting true RFD's out of business!
I believe they are quite ok to make a firearm from scratch for their own use - selling it moves it to a different category. Quite a few semi finished kits available, especially muzzle loading arms.
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#32 Post by Pippin89 »

1066 wrote:
Pippin89 wrote:
1066 wrote:Pity there's not a RFD (Lite) or "Gun tinkerer" category - Say someone who tunes airguns - some must inevitably show above 12ftlbs when tested, so technically illegal, or someone wants to buy a barrel blank before getting rid of the old barrel. Yes, I know you can apply for a variation etc. every time but it could be a lot easier in some cases.
I'm sure I have heard an American talking about them having something like this. He was making a stock for a friend and said he registered as a gunsmith or something to make it easier for him holding his friends rifle. Obviously America varies from state to state.... but something like that would make sense!
As long as it wasn't abused to the point of putting true RFD's out of business!
I believe they are quite ok to make a firearm from scratch for their own use - selling it moves it to a different category. Quite a few semi finished kits available, especially muzzle loading arms.
I forget the details of it to be honest but he was advising that anyone who works on guns for friends should register as a gunsmith to avoid one problem or another....
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#33 Post by Chapuis »

1066 wrote:
Pippin89 wrote:
1066 wrote:Pity there's not a RFD (Lite) or "Gun tinkerer" category - Say someone who tunes airguns - some must inevitably show above 12ftlbs when tested, so technically illegal, or someone wants to buy a barrel blank before getting rid of the old barrel. Yes, I know you can apply for a variation etc. every time but it could be a lot easier in some cases.
I'm sure I have heard an American talking about them having something like this. He was making a stock for a friend and said he registered as a gunsmith or something to make it easier for him holding his friends rifle. Obviously America varies from state to state.... but something like that would make sense!
As long as it wasn't abused to the point of putting true RFD's out of business!
I believe they are quite ok to make a firearm from scratch for their own use - selling it moves it to a different category. Quite a few semi finished kits available, especially muzzle loading arms.
Selling it or offering it for sale should not be a problem provided that it was in proof.
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#34 Post by TRG-22 »

bradaz11 wrote:see, this is why people are calling you a troll - you are given an explanation, which someone took the time to reference for you, but you don't agree, and so just dismiss it
No - I get called a troll because people refuse to accept what I say about that as being the truth. Or they invent things I've not written, and then when they find they don't like what they've invented, decide that must be my fault. Or they are the sort of people to whom the idea comes naturally that people could be so pathetic and dishonest that they would make posts on a forum deliberately designed to cause trouble.

One of the saddest things about this is that I know it will do no good to point out that if people read what I have actually written, nowhere will they find that I have dismissed, disagreed with or argued about what the law says.

Nowhere have I disagreed with, or argued about, what the 'D' in 'RFD' stands for.

Nowhere have I disagreed with, or argued about, what people have told me about police procedures.


My point was, and remains, that I cannot see what risks or harms are created by someone becoming an RFD but not actually profiting as one.

I can't see how, if two people are examined and vetted and whatevered, and at that point are identical in every single respect apart from their business plan, not having a "credible" plan then makes Fred more of a risk than Bill. In fact, one might think that if someone did want to become an RFD for nefarious reasons they'd do as much as they could to avoid any increased scrutiny.

So, I asked these questions:

TRG-22 wrote:That guidance still makes me wonder why. As long as someone is personally OK to be an RFD, and has all the physical security needed, and (if it's required) can show that he knows the law, what business is it of the police to vet his business plan?

In other words if someone would be allowed to register as a dealer if they had a business plan that the police liked, what justifiable concerns would the police have about the guy registering if the only box not ticked was an acceptable BP?
TRG-22 wrote:Again - why do they care?

For sure I think that the requirements for becoming an RFD should be stringent regarding things that matter, but why does a business plan matter?

What am I missing?


And after Sim G answered:

Sim G wrote:A dealer is defined at Section 57(4) of the Firearms Act 1968 as a person or a corporate body who, by way of trade or business: manufactures, sells, transfers, repairs, tests or proves firearms or ammunition to which section 1 of the Act applies, or shotguns; or sells or transfers air weapons. So if you no “business” you essentially do not meet the criteria as laid down in legislation.


I stopped asking, because my genuine question had been answered.

To then be accused of dismissing the answer beggars belief.

It does indeed explain why the police have an interest in whether someone's business plan looks sound.

But it does not show that there is a risk created by not having such a plan, which is all that I went on to say.

Does that matter? No.

Does it mean that the police can be challenged if they want someone to have a proper business plan? No.

Am I suggesting that, or telling people that they are wrong? No.

But the same things can be observed about the police being required by law to take an interest in a person's medical fitness to hold an FAC, which means that they have to seek a report from that person's doctor, and none of that stops Christel from moaning about it, saying it is pointless and calling the police snowflakes for doing it.

bradaz11 wrote:now leave this thread alone
I may well leave the entire forum alone.

I need to have a think about whether it is worth putting up with the aggression and accusations of dishonesty from people who cannot or will not read what I actually write.
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#35 Post by dromia »

There seems to be a mutual understanding block going on here, most people on here do not understand from whence you are coming just as you can't seem to understand where the forum members are coming from.

Constant challenging of every view on either "side" is not helpful, it is best to try and understand the issues. That understanding, especially the vagaries of firearms law which is applied inconsistently across the country, comes from direct experience with the system which is the only way of reconciling the invariable differences of theory and practice therein.

That is why many on here suggest to TRG 22 that you actually get involved in clubs and and the FAC system as this will give you far more realistic understanding of the licensing system's peccadilloes. Theoretical melees can on occasion be interesting but at the end of the day actual engagement with the system and its many foibles both local and national, will tangibly answer your curiosity on the subject.

I suspect that members on here see your interrogations as picayune and that you see this forum as a place for semantic skirmishing rather than an embracement of the love of firearms and shooting.

As the great bard said:

"What a gift that god would gie us tae see oorsells as t'others see us."

A bit more understanding on all sides would go a long way.
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#36 Post by Gazza »

Popcorn, Ocelot noses, wolf nipple chips......get em here lol
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#37 Post by Christel »

Gazza wrote:Popcorn, Ocelot noses, wolf nipple chips......get em here lol
Gosh, I had to google that 8-)
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#38 Post by Bovril »

Splitter....
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#39 Post by bradaz11 »

christel wrote:
Gazza wrote:Popcorn, Ocelot noses, wolf nipple chips......get em here lol
Gosh, I had to google that 8-)
you haven't lived, next you'll be telling us you have no idea who mr creosote is, and why he really shouldn't have had that last wafer thin mint
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Re: Registering as a registered fire arms dealer.

#40 Post by Christel »

bradaz11 wrote:
christel wrote:
Gazza wrote:Popcorn, Ocelot noses, wolf nipple chips......get em here lol
Gosh, I had to google that 8-)
you haven't lived, next you'll be telling us you have no idea who mr creosote is, and why he really shouldn't have had that last wafer thin mint
lol you are talking in riddles now lol
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