Black Powder on electronic targets

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James84
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Black Powder on electronic targets

#1 Post by James84 »

As per the title, does anyone have experience shooting BP centrefire at electronics? I am primarily thinking about 45-70.

I am interested to know if others have used it, does it register, were there any limitations on you using it? This question applies to any ranges around the UK.

Longer story/reason for asking - I want to use my Sharps on an electronic but Bisley decline bookings with 'black powder' ticked on electronic targets. If I load it with Triple 7, or nitro (R7, Varget etc.) then in theory, no issues and I can shoot it at an electronic.

Their answer to why was - "we have to change the targets more often with black powder and the electronics have sensors, so we don't allow it". I have questioned this as I guess that is due to accuracy concerns as range regs forbid muzzleloaders, but not BPCR like a Sharps (which is perhaps more accurate than some other, smokeless calibres) and wonder if it is due to velocity? I have asked them again, so will see what the response is.
rox
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Re: Black Powder on electronic targets

#2 Post by rox »

"Open" systems, like Silver Mountain and ShotMarker require the projectile to arrive supersonic to work at all. Closed/membrane systems should detect subsonic, but there might be concerns about increased damage to the membrane and acoustic insulation caused by large and slower projectiles. Most systems have exposed sensors and cabling with the notable exception of Intarso (closed system), where the sensors and cabling can be protected behind the mantlett at the bottom of the target.
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GeeRam
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Re: Black Powder on electronic targets

#3 Post by GeeRam »

James048 wrote: Their answer to why was - "we have to change the targets more often with black powder and the electronics have sensors, so we don't allow it". I have questioned this as I guess that is due to accuracy concerns as range regs forbid muzzleloaders, but not BPCR like a Sharps (which is perhaps more accurate than some other, smokeless calibres) and wonder if it is due to velocity? I have asked them again, so will see what the response is.
Accuracy would be my guess as well.
It's bad enough with battle sighted WW1/WW2 era battle rifles at 300yrds leccy targets at Bisley and the high probability of shooting the sensors out.
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Re: Black Powder on electronic targets

#4 Post by rox »

GeeRam wrote:Accuracy would be my guess as well.
It's bad enough with battle sighted WW1/WW2 era battle rifles at 300yrds leccy targets at Bisley and the high probability of shooting the sensors out.
If accuracy were the reason, why would BP be banned from targets where the sensors can't be hit? Too much accuracy is also a problem on membrane targets because the middle of the membrane gets shot out quickly.
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GeeRam
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Re: Black Powder on electronic targets

#5 Post by GeeRam »

rox wrote:
GeeRam wrote:Accuracy would be my guess as well.
It's bad enough with battle sighted WW1/WW2 era battle rifles at 300yrds leccy targets at Bisley and the high probability of shooting the sensors out.
If accuracy were the reason, why would BP be banned from targets where the sensors can't be hit?
Which electronic targets at Bisley can't the sensors be hit...?

The sensors on the ones on the far right of Century setup for 300yrds are certainly breakable.
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Re: Black Powder on electronic targets

#6 Post by James84 »

Thanks all.

As it stands, I am going to load up smokeless to run through the Sharps on the electronics. I will wait and see what their answer is as to why the same cartridge with the same accuracy can't be loaded with BP. I don't think they're understanding my question though.
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Re: Black Powder on electronic targets

#7 Post by rox »

GeeRam wrote:Which electronic targets at Bisley can't the sensors be hit...?

The sensors on the ones on the far right of Century setup for 300yrds are certainly breakable.
The Konsberg and ShotMarker targets have exposed sensors and cabling. The Intarso targets do not. Intarso targets are normally used at 600, 900 and 1000/1100/1200 yards. Konsberg and ShotMarker at 300 or less.
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Re: Black Powder on electronic targets

#8 Post by James84 »

So I have had two answers from Bisley, the first didn't make sense to me, the second did.

The first answer was that a BP causes more damage to a target than smokeless so it is forbidden. I don't believe that is true, as a 45-70 loaded with BP makes the exact same hole as with smokless.

The second answer is that only firearms of .30cal or less are permitted on the electronics, which writes off 45-70 from being used. Whilst that does give me a definitive answer on whether I can use 45-70 on an electronic, it does leave the questions of 'does a BP-loaded 45-70 do more damage to a target than a smokeless propellant?' in my mind...
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Re: Black Powder on electronic targets

#9 Post by GeeRam »

James048 wrote: The second answer is that only firearms of .30cal or less are permitted on the electronics
I've used both my K98k's on 300yrd electronic, as have other K98k owners I've seen.... and 7.92x57 is more than .30cal.
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Re: Black Powder on electronic targets

#10 Post by Triffid »

James048 wrote: The second answer is that only firearms of .30cal or less are permitted on the electronics . . .
That is someone in the range office bullshitting again. There's a whole world of bullets >.30 cal. As well as the 7.92, how about the .311 ones that come out of our LE's.
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