Those crazy crosshairs

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Maggot
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#11 Post by Maggot »

JSC wrote:The only way to stop them moving is to hold the rifle steadier!

Seriously though, if you are shooting off hand (without support) it is impossible to stop them moving completely. You just need to learn how to minimise the movement and employ strategies to give you a higher chance of getting the shot in the centre of the target.

Yes, it's possible to get the reticle and target in focus at the same time, but not all scopes can focus down to 25m and whatever happens you will need to adjust the objective (eyepiece) first against a plain background to make sure that matches your eye's prescription. There are plenty of online tutorials on how to set up scopes so maybe have a look on YouTube or Google as well.

Good luck!
Well if thsi chap dont know.... ;)

After a few years of plugging away at CSR I can just about make sense of standing, but still never get it quite right. Bunged the lot from a Practice Belfast gamble into the bull at 20 yards the other night...and missed with one completely....Arrrggghhhhh.

Nothing happens overnight, but what I have found is invaluable is simple dry training. I am lucky enough to have a Scatt trainer (fairly useless for CSR as it does not deal with figure targets but there are ways round that) which highlights errors.

When I was practicing sitting, I crossed my legs a different way round and the ret went from a figure 8 motion accross the target to a nice little orbit round the POA. It the little things that can sometimes make a difference.

Never be afraid to try something else if it improves things. There are accepted techniques, but we dont all work the same so one persons "Arggghhhhh" might be your "oh....That's good".

As John says, invariably things are moving. But its a bit like learning to hover a helicopter, you just keep practicing in smaller fields.

Never underestimate dry training. A simple NRA black patch on a white background 10 yards away makes a great aiming mark and will often show you very clearly when things are improving. And yes, although you may not always get it right, the marksmanship principles are critical and need applying in the right order.

As regards focus on the target, you should be concentrating on centre of mass to be honest. My elcan is never in focus lower than about 40 yards so anything on a small bore indoor range is usually blurred, but I do ok. Your ret should be in clear focus, the target is not so critical and with irons the blade should be the last thing in focus anyway.

Although it does not actually reduce movement, if you can, try dropping your mag down a bit (particularly for standing). It reduces the percieved movement so you tend not to stress less chasing the error, and looking for the position that gives you automatic alignment (natural POA). Try it, I bet your group size reduces.

Good luck mate, if it was that easy we would all pack up and go home ;)
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#12 Post by JSC »

Thanks M ;)

One thing to try if you haven't heard about it already is what certain American rifle shooters call "approach shooting".

This is a technique I used myself for a number of years before I even knew there was a name for it! It doesn't necessarily work with all types of gun/target combinations but it can be effective with some for offhand shooting.

Here's a good video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj2Vai5Q3fw

What this does underline is that if you shoot enough you will find ways to make the gun and you do things which initially you might have thought wasn't possible.
If you're not hitting the target (or the bull) as often as you'd like, just try a different hold, different position, different breathing technique or whatever and you might find something you try leads to an increased score. If you concentrate too much on a particular method and it's not working, you'll get frustrated and that won't help your performance.

Read up/watch videos of what top shooters do and try the things they suggest, but don't think they are the only way to do things.
Best of all, as safetyfirst says, get some coaching. It's the fastest way to improve and can same you a lot of money in the long run.
Madhatter
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#13 Post by Madhatter »

As a probationer I am am seated with the rifle in a front support when I shoot, I should have clearly stated this on my first post on this subject - sorry, the Natural Point of Aim is clearly one of my many novice issues, has anyone got any tips as to how I might practice at home? I know more range time would be good but can only manage once a week at the moment. helpsign
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breacher
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#14 Post by breacher »

One thing I found which realy helped......

When you squeeze the trigger and release the shot - dont immediately release the trigger. Instead, concentrate on your sight picture during the shot and even for the half second after before releasing the trigger.
http://www.phoenixtactical.co.uk

RFD 2043 Cambridgeshire
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#15 Post by Maggot »

JSC wrote:Thanks M ;)

One thing to try if you haven't heard about it already is what certain American rifle shooters call "approach shooting".

This is a technique I used myself for a number of years before I even knew there was a name for it! It doesn't necessarily work with all types of gun/target combinations but it can be effective with some for offhand shooting.

Here's a good video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vj2Vai5Q3fw

What this does underline is that if you shoot enough you will find ways to make the gun and you do things which initially you might have thought wasn't possible.
If you're not hitting the target (or the bull) as often as you'd like, just try a different hold, different position, different breathing technique or whatever and you might find something you try leads to an increased score. If you concentrate too much on a particular method and it's not working, you'll get frustrated and that won't help your performance.

Read up/watch videos of what top shooters do and try the things they suggest, but don't think they are the only way to do things.
Best of all, as safetyfirst says, get some coaching. It's the fastest way to improve and can same you a lot of money in the long run.
The biggest problem I find is remembering what caused the improvement last time, but yes, I used to see so many people in FTR with what was damned near a ritual and some would only do something because "X" said it was the way to do it. Peter C always warns against "I did it my way syndrome", but in short, an hour messing with small changes or just dry training is well spent.
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#16 Post by safetyfirst »

breacher wrote:One thing I found which realy helped......

When you squeeze the trigger and release the shot - dont immediately release the trigger. Instead, concentrate on your sight picture during the shot and even for the half second after before releasing the trigger.
yes! Follow through.

When you’ve inspected your result, the click of the trigger reset should mark the end of the shot (on a semi auto at least)
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#17 Post by Maggot »

breacher wrote:One thing I found which realy helped......

When you squeeze the trigger and release the shot - dont immediately release the trigger. Instead, concentrate on your sight picture during the shot and even for the half second after before releasing the trigger.
Good call and basic marksmanship principles Bri. I have been helping out with the skills courses and many never bother following through. I am not even sure I do, but I do stay on aim and watch for splash (and hopefully dont see it!!!).

1. Position and hold must be firm enough to support the We*pon green55

2. We*pon must point naturally at the target without any undue physical effort (....you still have to take control and hold the thing properly but not force it onto the NPA)

3. Sight alignment (aiming) must be correct (And no, not having a parralax adjustable scope is not an excuse if your head position is consistant)

4. The shot must be released and followed through without disturbing the position (or put another way, stay on aim and watch your fall of shot....NOW you see why muzzle brakes can be such an advantage, you can watch the shot throughout and ideally settle back on aim)

And rumor has it the School of Inf added a 5th

"The shooter must have a positive mental attitude" (Actually they quote Lanny Basham in the DCCT Coaching manual. I would recommend any competitor read "With winning in mind" by Lanny Basham, if only to sit there saying "Jeez...I do that, yep, that's me, Oh no has this bloke been watching me again?" lol )

On Brians point though, People forget lock time and some actually pre empt any recoil, bit like a kid with a toy gun. In CSR or any other rapid shooting you may well be a bit hyped up and facing multiple targets all looking the same. You may also have little or no time to check the wind. In the mob we taught aiming off and miss drills, it sounds obvious but you need to be aware if you miss and stay on the right target, so if you are watching your strike, see dust rising behind the target, that is usually a good thing. If you handle the trigger badly you will miss, it does not take much movement to do it. All of my ARs have a small fillet that is taped under my trigger finger. Firstly it makes them all feel the same, but secondly as the grip tapers, it measn I can easilly reach the trigger on a joint, and I shoot with a pad, so the fillet makes sure I can only reach the trigger with the right part of the finger...much good that it does as I still get swept up with the moment and shoot too quickly...and miss teanews

Another good mantra is "Sight Picture, trigger control" (Cheers John ;) ), easier to say than do but it really does boil the lot down to the essentials. If you are pointing consistantly at the right point of aim, and you squeeze the trigger properly, you should hit the POA....as long as you use the other 3 to get there wtf Much easier to preach than to do though :oops:
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#18 Post by Madhatter »

Oh my, I am so grateful that so many have taken the time to help me, thank you so much all
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#19 Post by Madhatter »

No! Don't Laugh!! (Frankie Howard for those who are old enough) I was thinking of making a wooden rifle (dad's army ish!) and putting a laser pen on top just to practice holding the dot on a homemade target, off a front rest when at home ( I did say don't laugh). I thought this might help with the breathing and muscular tension. My wife has said no to me wearing a ghillie suit lol
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Re: Those crazy crosshairs

#20 Post by Daryll »

Madhatter wrote:No! Don't Laugh!! (Frankie Howard for those who are old enough) I was thinking of making a wooden rifle (dad's army ish!) and putting a laser pen on top just to practice holding the dot on a homemade target, off a front rest when at home ( I did say don't laugh). I thought this might help with the breathing and muscular tension. My wife has said no to me wearing a ghillie suit lol
Not a bad idea... and if you make it weighty enough it will be your weight training too... don't forget a max of 10 seconds, then do as many reps as your arm will take..

You will get wobblier the more reps you do, but over time you'll be able to do more reps before getting the wobbles..
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