Gateshead Firearms Dealer 1980s

[Chapuis]

Well, here I am and lets see if I can clear up some myths about Pat Walker and his business Pat Walker Guns...
I was Pats armorer when he was in business in Gateshead (and later when he was working for Budge in Retford, Notts).
Yes, the shop was a bit shambolic but he was primarily a mail order business (wouldn't work in this current 'state'). And yes, I used to have to climb over crates of Galil's and Uzi's (we were the IMI agent in the UK) sometimes after a large shipment arrived.

But I must correct Chapuis in his facts:

1. Pat never had a private aircraft, he never got to that level of income ;-)
2. He never had a .455" Webley Mk IV converted to .45 ACP, he did however have a Webley-Fosberry in .455" that I made reloads for him. One of the memorable recollections I have of Pat and that fine pistol was when he accidentally discharged it in the shop and put a round into the wall... how we laughed (after our ears stopped ringing...).

I still talk with Pat regularly and although he does not deal in firearms any more his interest (and mine) has never waned.

I currently do a lot of research for various companies for their archives (the Institute of Military Technology in Titusville, Florida. Beretta in Gardone val Trompia, Italy. and I am currently putting together an internet TV channel that will debut with programmes filmed in the former Pattern Room Collection, in Leeds).

I really miss those halcyon years of shooting and collecting here in the UK which alas are no more in regard to the use and collecting of semiautomatic rifles and any type of full-bore pistols. I still get to shoot those types of firearms (and fully automatic too) but not in the UK... A sad state (!) of affairs really...

Cheers,

Vic

Vic I was sure that I had the right guy but quite possibly my recollection is slightly wrong, or I am talking about someone else. Maybe Pat didn't have a PPL but had a lift from a friend by light aircraft to Haverfordwest but I'm fairly certain that the guy I am talking about used .45acp in full moon clips. Did Pat use such ammo in his Fosberry or have I got him confused with someone else?
It would be a bit strange for someone to alter something as rare as a Fosberry just for the convenience of using .45acp and full moon clips. Are you sure he didn't also have a Mk IV that he used for certain speed competitions or is my memory totally fuzzed up?
It just might be that I am talking about the wrong person as it was so long ago but I don't think so.


Of one thing that I am definitely not confused over and my memory is in absolute agreement with yours is the good old days when we could shoot real pistols in this country. My enjoyment of shooting has diminished significantly since our pistols were stolen from us nothing has ever come anywhere near the satisfaction of shooting a pistol well in competition or even at regular club meets since then.

[dromia]

Welcome to the forum UK Armourer and thank you for your contribution to this thread.

One of the things that interests me is how some people can achieve almost mythical status.

Certainly threads like this only add to the reputation, deserved or otherwise. However Pat Walker had and has the reputation of the quintessential dodgy RFD, whether deserved or not, in fact Pat had the reputation and was a legend even "back in the day" before court cases and his demise as a RFD.

I wonder why this came about and why all these apocryphal stories get attached to him when there are other dealers who have been drawn to the dark side and have had more severe punishments than Pat seems to have received and they have just faded away into deserved obscurity.

I have always found the source and dynamic of myth and legend very curious.

[huntervixen]

PARTLY TRUE. BACK THEN AS LONG AS THE BARREL WAS SMOOTHBORE AND 24" IN LENGTH AND NOT FULL AUTO PRESTO! IT IS A S.2 SHOTGUN... PERFECTLY LEGIT... THERE WAS NEVER ANY 'UNDER THE COUNTER' BARRELS, ETC AS THE COMPANY WE USE TO CONVERT THE BARRELS (EXTENDED AND SLEEVED) WAS BAILONS IN BIRMINGHAM AND THE USED THE ORIGINAL BARRELS AND CONVERTED THEM SO THAT BLOWS THAT CRAP OUT OF THE WATER MATE!

Ah my old memory wasn't failing me then then, I was beginning to wonder if I dreamt up the 24" barrel MkV Sten advert all those years ago!

Though most of the "changes" to the firearms act since then have been draconian and completely overboard, allowing UZI and Sten "shotguns" back in the day was pure bloody bark at the moon madness!

Along these lines and of the same era, I once came across a "shotgun" M1 Garand on my travels, beautiful example of the type, its now in store with a Sec5 approved RFD awaiting an uncertain future..

[Death2Ticks]

Vic - great to read your stuff about Pat. As you were working with him back then can you confirm my recollections regarding 'crippling' those Uzis with an allen screw so as to prevent select fire.

I now live in Northern Ireland where handguns aren't banned and am attempting to rebuild a copy of my handgun collection that those t.w.a.t.s. confiscated in 96/7, however, it's not an easy task as there isn't as much stock readily available as there was back in the day ... but I'm getting there slowly. It really is great to be able to shoot handguns again.

[25Pdr]

Anybody remember John Longstaff?

He was a well known Gun Dealer who supposedly committed suicide on a plane by cutting his throat in the toilet.
Some details...
http://harrogateinternationalfestivals. ... hn-barlow/

From the article..

The manner of his death, however, was not ordinary. He was found dead on a flight from Amsterdam in ’84, slumped in the toilet, his throat cut. An apparent suicide, complete with suicide note. Throat? Who kills themselves by slashing their own throat? His wife didn’t believe it, and kicked up a fuss, challenging the coroner’s verdict of suicide. And that’s when the s*** really started.

[Chapuis]

Yes I remember John Longstaff and Pheasant Valley, I purchased my first centrefire pistol off him through the post. It was a Model 28 highway patrolman and I think it cost me £125 brand new in the box. I also purchased a couple of cheap gun cabinets off the company one of which I am still using.

His death opened up a very big investigation involving many RFDs and the sale of stolen MOD ammo. I remember military police officers attending a local gun auction that was selling 9mm and 7.62mm ex military ammunition and it being withdrawn from sale. In one case I seem to recall stories of remote storage sheds down in Wiltshire where huge quantities of suspect ammo was being stored. Didn't the guys who originally opened the tunnel range in Devises get implicated in all this?

[FredB]

In the late '70s to early '80s my club operated a reloading syndicate. Each member had a job--cleaning scrap lead, casting, resizing and decapping case and so on. Once a month we would get together and load a large quantity of ammo which was stored in the club armoury and sold back to ourselves as needed at a fixed price. Money accumulated and was spent at John Longstaffs on primers, powders etc. I can remember sitting with John in his office upstairs discussing his business plan.
I do not believe that he committed suicide. If you were in the confined space of an aircraft toilet and somebody reached in and slashed at your throat, your immediate reaction would be to slam the door shut. John had a lot to live for. He was moving his prime business into pyrotechnics and the firearms part was migrating down the road to Henry Kranks.
Fred

[Gazoo]

Anybody remember John Longstaff?

He was a well known Gun Dealer who supposedly committed suicide on a plane by cutting his throat in the toilet.
Some details...
http://harrogateinternationalfestivals. ... hn-barlow/

From the article..

The manner of his death, however, was not ordinary. He was found dead on a flight from Amsterdam in ’84, slumped in the toilet, his throat cut. An apparent suicide, complete with suicide note. Throat? Who kills themselves by slashing their own throat? His wife didn’t believe it, and kicked up a fuss, challenging the coroner’s verdict of suicide. And that’s when the s*** really started.

Yes it sounded like bullshit at the time and the aroma has just matured over the years . Something else rotten in the state of Englandmark me thinks.

[UK Armourer]

To answer Death2ticks comment

<<great to read your stuff about Pat. As you were working with him back then can you confirm my recollections regarding 'crippling' those Uzis with an allen screw so as to prevent select fire.>>

That certainly wasn't the way I converted the Full-auto UZI's Pat brought in from IMI in Israel. That all came about because Action Arms (the US importer of semi-auto UZI carbines back then) used to gazump all the European dealers and take everything IMI could produce in the first year or so of the 'semi-auto carbine' UZI going on sale... BUT we could easily get full-auto UZI's so we did! I then converted the trigger so as to mimic the semi-auto model and there was no way that it could have full-auto selected as the parts were modified AND there was a LARGE metal piece welded inside the trigger group preventing full auto selection. They were still open bolt firing so low power loads could produce a runaway gun or a burst! that's the problem with open bolt guns ;-)

Cheers,

Vic

[Death2Ticks]

Vic, enlightening to read what you did internally to those Uzis but I still can't rid my memory of that Allen screw showing at the 'select fire' position. Am I right about the Allen screw, did it exist or are my poor old brain cells playing tricks? If it did exist what was it's function?