Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

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gyt
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Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#1 Post by gyt »

Greetings
I have a question about buying a rifle. I would like to purchase a new rifle for participation in local competitions (100 200 300 meters) and possibly in the future for participation in F CLASS competitions. I have a rifle GRUNIG+ELGIMER SUPER TARGET 200 /308/WIN with a barrel 28" and muzzle diameter 24 mm. I will unfortunately have to sell it. We do not have weapons services here and I have to order a ready-made rifle, preferably from Europe. It is important to note that here is by no means allowed to make reloading. Since I am very satisfied with the rifle I have, and I have the option to order a new rifle from the same company, I consider to purchase one of the two rifles:
Single shoot : GRUNIG + ELGIMER FT 300 PRONE .308WIN
https://www.gruenel.ch/en-product-g_e_p ... rh~15_9600
or Magazine rifle: GRUNIG + ELGIMER FT 300 standard .308WIN
https://www.gruenel.ch/en-product-g_e_f ... h_~15_9000

The advantage of a rifle with a cartridge is that it allows participation in most types of competitions. The downside is that it is said to be less accurate, and the accuracy is very important to me. Is a single-shot rifle really more accurate?
Should I buy with a 28 "or 30" barrel? My fear is that a rifle with a 30 "barrel will be less accurate in short ranges, because of the vibrations.
Has anyone purchased these guns for participation in F/TR FCLASS competitions?
Since the authorities here are creating difficulties , this move of buying a rifle will be a one-time event, so it is important for me to make the right choice.

Thank you for helping me
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Pete
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Re: Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#2 Post by Pete »

I would go for the CISM Standard rifle.........if you're unable to re-load and are limited to commercial ammunition, then choice of barrel length, or single shot/magazine, is a bit academic since you can't tailor your ammunition to suit..

But why do you have to sell your Super Target 200? Put a decent scope on it and you're good to go......or maybe it's a bit too heavy for F/TR?

Pete
"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum" Lucretius
gyt
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Re: Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#3 Post by gyt »

Thank you Pete for your answer.
The reason I have to sell unfortunately is that it is not possible to hold 2 rifles here and the rifle I have was made in 1992 and I wanted to renew with a rifle with a cartridge option. To the extent that a rifle with a cartridge would be less accurate (is that true?) I would give up the idea and continue shooting my rifle because accuracy is important to me above all.
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Pete
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Re: Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#4 Post by Pete »

As I said, if you're limited to using commercial ammunition, you probably won't notice any difference in accuracy between single shot and magazine fed, unless you're a top competitive marksman.
I have both types, but my favourite is a very old Musgrave single-shot target rifle in 6BR calibre with a 760mm barrel, still able to shoot 0.5 MOA groups, but only if I can hold it steady.......then again, I re-load, so I've been able to "fine tune" the load to suit the rifle.
What brands of ammunition are available to you?

Pete
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gyt
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Re: Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#5 Post by gyt »

I am a good marksman and shoot well. Mostly in the first places.
Our choice of ammo is: Sellier & Bellot match 168-175 grain .308win, old(1990) I.M.I .308win 168 grain, fiocchi .308WIN perfecta 168-175 graim all are HPBT.
Because accuracy is very important to me in order to continue to lead in competitions,
It seems to me that I would still prefer single shot because of the accuracy.
I thank you very much for the reference and help!!
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Re: Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#6 Post by rox »

Pete wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:49 pmif you're unable to re-load and are limited to commercial ammunition, then choice of barrel length, or single shot/magazine, is a bit academic since you can't tailor your ammunition to suit..
If you can't reload then the choice of barrel length, and other factors like bore/groove dimensions, freebore, twist etc, are absolutely critical. Precisely because you can't tailor your ammunition to the barrel, you have to tailor the barrel to the ammunition. Barrel length and bore/groove dimensions are two ways to influence the velocity you obtain with a particular factory load. UK TR shooters have faced this problem for decades, having to tune every facet of chamber and barrel to optimise the performance of an issued factory round, and to give the best chance of 1000 yard performance with a projectile that would likely be subsonic or transonic from a 26" or 28" full dimension (.30/.308) barrel.
gyt wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:55 amThe reason I have to sell unfortunately is that it is not possible to hold 2 rifles here and the rifle I have was made in 1992
What's the importance of the age? I have ST200s that are quite a bit older than that and shoot to a very high level; I have no desire to change them (as long as I can replace the barrels when required).
gyt wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:14 pmShould I buy with a 28 "or 30" barrel? My fear is that a rifle with a 30 "barrel will be less accurate in short ranges, because of the vibrations.
A lot depends on the distances you need to shoot and the characteristics of your factory ammo. Depending on the ammunition performance, if you don't shoot beyond 800 yards (for example) then there's practically nothing to be gained from the longer barrel, with the possible drawback that the longer the barrel is, the more time the bullet is in the barrel when you could potentially influence it. It's a pretty trivial difference though.

My ST200s all have 30" or 32" barrels (none are from Grunig though). The 32" was specifically chosen to maximise the long range performance of a particular 'factory' ammo that had to be used in a certain competition - it wasn't your ordinary factory ammo though, and used the Berger 155.5 'BT Fullbore' bullet. It actually shoots 'conventional' factory ammo very well, even though the twist is a little too fast. 90% of its use has been with handloads - if that was 100% then I might choose a 30", but for those odd occasions when factory/issued ammunition combines with worst-case environmental conditions at the longest distance I'll probably replace it with another 32".
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Re: Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#7 Post by Pete »

Rox, the OP also said : "We do not have weapons services here and I have to order a ready-made rifle, preferably from Europe", which kinda throws a spanner in his works...........

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Re: Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#8 Post by rox »

Pete wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:05 pmRox, the OP also said : "We do not have weapons services here and I have to order a ready-made rifle, preferably from Europe", which kinda throws a spanner in his works...........
Doesn't necessarily preclude ordering a rifle with the barrel of his spec, or sending the rifle for 'repair' (rebarreling) or travelling to a competition and (miraculously) returning with a new barrel.
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Re: Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#9 Post by Pete »

It would certainly be a miracle if the competition was in the UK...

Pete
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gyt
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Re: Consultation regarding the purchase of a new rifle

#10 Post by gyt »

Since there are no weapons services here and it is forbidden to import a barrel (and even if I manage to import a barrel, no one here will be able to install it) The only option is to buy a new rifle or travel abroad for competition and "miraculously" as you mentioned with grace and humor (that I really liked) in order to exchange a barrel. since in Switzerland there are no competitions open to foreigners and I do not know where to go and who to turn to in order to install a high-quality barrel that will fit the ammunition I shoot I'm trapped. 4 years ago the authorities allow me to travel with the rifle to the manufacturer(Grunig+Elgimer) and re-barrel it, today I doubt I will get such a permit and the only option as I mentioned is to go to a competition abroad.
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