Rifling worn for last few inches only ?

[andrew375]

Funny that, I've got the same problem with a Mosin I've just bought and I have no excuse as I took my bore scope with me and gave the barrel a good eye balling before I bought it. Unfortunately I was just looking at the throat and first part of the barrel and that showed hardly any wear. In fact it looked like it had just come off the machine. I noticed the rifling gave out about 4 inches from the muzzle but it had all the appearances of being used with undersized cast bullets and I was seeing lead that had been washed off the bullet sides. After a really, really, really good clean (yes he had been shooting cast bullets and no he hadn't bothered to clean the barrel beforehand either) I found the barrel is washed out at the muzzle with barely any sign of rifling at the muzzle end, its almost as though the barrel has been stood muzzle down in a bucket of water for a few years whilst the rest of the bore was protected by a preservative. Interestingly a tight patch feels the same though the full length of the barrel and slugging the muzzle shows no ovality or taper.

Getting to your situation I believe (based on observations on firing points, posts on bulletin boards like this one and listening to shooters with rifle like yours) is caused by the fad of using bore snakes for routine barrel cleaning. These have two problems, neither of which are due to the bore snake which is only intended as an emergency tool; these are pulling through the barrel and not keeping it straight (is there more wear at six o'clock?) and not storing it clean which means it ends up picking up grit which abrades the bore on the way through. As I always point out when I get asked about these items there is a reason why competition shooters use rods for cleaning and only put a patch through once.

[bradaz11]

if you are going to rebarrel, why not chop it it first and see how it does for yourself?

[kennyc]

Funny that, I've got the same problem with a Mosin I've just bought and I have no excuse as I took my bore scope with me and gave the barrel a good eye balling before I bought it. Unfortunately I was just looking at the throat and first part of the barrel and that showed hardly any wear. In fact it looked like it had just come off the machine. I noticed the rifling gave out about 4 inches from the muzzle but it had all the appearances of being used with undersized cast bullets and I was seeing lead that had been washed off the bullet sides. After a really, really, really good clean (yes he had been shooting cast bullets and no he hadn't bothered to clean the barrel beforehand either) I found the barrel is washed out at the muzzle with barely any sign of rifling at the muzzle end, its almost as though the barrel has been stood muzzle down in a bucket of water for a few years whilst the rest of the bore was protected by a preservative. Interestingly a tight patch feels the same though the full length of the barrel and slugging the muzzle shows no ovality or taper.

Getting to your situation I believe (based on observations on firing points, posts on bulletin boards like this one and listening to shooters with rifle like yours) is caused by the fad of using bore snakes for routine barrel cleaning. These have two problems, neither of which are due to the bore snake which is only intended as an emergency tool; these are pulling through the barrel and not keeping it straight (is there more wear at six o'clock?) and not storing it clean which means it ends up picking up grit which abrades the bore on the way through. As I always point out when I get asked about these items there is a reason why competition shooters use rods for cleaning and only put a patch through once.

Sorry I struggle to see how this could be possible, most if not all pull throughs are pulled from breech to muzzle, and foreign body damage would be more likely in the first part of the barrel rather than the last . The downside of pull through use is the excessive use of the pull through (and I expect most stories about this originate in military use , quite possibly harking back to national service) and the trick wrapping the pull through around a door knob or bed frame to allow easier pulling ! This can cause notching of the crown, which I believe is a punishable offence in most militaries. Target shooters using rods are a totally different beast , it's a lot easier to clean with a rod if you have one but a pull through has it's place out in the field. I have two Swiss service rifles one is 70 odd years old the other 120 or so , both have spent their lives being cleaned primarily with grease and pull throughs, neither show any sign of distress or excessive wear!
I suspect the lack of rifling towards the muzzle described is due to gas cutting over many years and rounds working it's way back down the barrel .

[wildrover77]

I read an interesting article somewhere on a US site.

The main theme of the article was that it was he last few inches that counted in accuracy, not the early part of the barrel.

The wear at the muzzle was down to the gas speeding up as the bullet left the barrel eliminating back pressure and allow the gas to speed up significantly.

[andrew375]

Sorry I struggle to see how this could be possible, most if not all pull throughs are pulled from breech to muzzle, and foreign body damage would be more likely in the first part of the barrel rather than the last . The downside of pull through use is the excessive use of the pull through (and I expect most stories about this originate in military use , quite possibly harking back to national service) and the trick wrapping the pull through around a door knob or bed frame to allow easier pulling ! This can cause notching of the crown, which I believe is a punishable offence in most militaries.

You are quite right that in the military improper use of a pull through would result would result in having a quiet chat with the drill sergeant. But I have witnessed many occasions where a bore snake was simply whipped through with no regard for keeping it in line with the bore at either end. Earlier this year I witnessed someone with an F-class rig on Stickledown, all brand new, all top notch stuff. At close of shooting he actually used a military issue type string pull through! Whilst he did pull it breech to muzzle he was pulling at almost a 45 degree angle to the bore! A person next to me also observing this performance summed it up with "all the gear, no idea!"

[bradaz11]

i see someone at one of my clubs regulary pull his rifles through with a boresnake, going muzzle to breech, no idea why he does it

[kennyc]

Sorry I struggle to see how this could be possible, most if not all pull throughs are pulled from breech to muzzle, and foreign body damage would be more likely in the first part of the barrel rather than the last . The downside of pull through use is the excessive use of the pull through (and I expect most stories about this originate in military use , quite possibly harking back to national service) and the trick wrapping the pull through around a door knob or bed frame to allow easier pulling ! This can cause notching of the crown, which I believe is a punishable offence in most militaries.

You are quite right that in the military improper use of a pull through would result would result in having a quiet chat with the drill sergeant. But I have witnessed many occasions where a bore snake was simply whipped through with no regard for keeping it in line with the bore at either end. Earlier this year I witnessed someone with an F-class rig on Stickledown, all brand new, all top notch stuff. At close of shooting he actually used a military issue type string pull through! Whilst he did pull it breech to muzzle he was pulling at almost a 45 degree angle to the bore! A person next to me also observing this performance summed it up with "all the gear, no idea!"

you can't teach stupid ! but I still can't see how that is going to wear the end of the barrel out.

[Sim G]

It doesn't. Incorrect use of a pull through/Boresnake damages the crown. If you don't think it can, wonder why dental floss isn't allowed in prisons....

[kennyc]

It doesn't. Incorrect use of a pull through/Boresnake damages the crown. If you don't think it can, wonder why dental floss isn't allowed in prisons....

that was my understanding as well, the dental floss I would imagine is more for its garrot performance than its bar cutting

[breacher]

Well, today I looked at it with a borescope.

It was not as bad as I first thought. Yes there is wear at the muzzle end but not as bare as I thought.

But there is a fair bit of pitting near the muzzle end - probably down to Mod in situ 24/7.
And firecracking too.

Also erosion at the throat / start of lands.

I could try a few different boxes of ammo - I could try cutting it down too. But that might well be throwing good money after bad.

Mark Bradley at Bradley Arms has a nice Sassen blank in stock and offered me a price I could not resist ! And he is kindly throwing in a cerakoting of the receiver to match the new barrel.