Optic for CSR

[Lancs_Oakley]

What is the current thinking for CSR shooters regarding optics?
Variable 1-8 or 1-6 or maybe fixed 4x

I know its a bit of personal choice but given technology improves all the time looking for the current suggestions.

Thanks!

[Whizzbang]

It depends very much on whether you are planning to shoot in the Service Optic class (max mag 4.bowl) or Practical Optic (no limit).

Also, if you plan to use the rifle for anything else ?

I shoot in Service Optic but have a scope that has max mag of 10x because I use it for other disciplines where the extra mag is useful and allowed.

Very little shooting is done below 100yds (Just Urban contact/FIBUA), so there is not much advantage to having a lower end mag of 1x. I just leave mine set on 4.bowl for everything.

I did use a 1-4x scope on a 300Blackout/Whisper for Urban Contact and it worked well: compact, light, clear reticle. However the rules changed and Service Optic disallows the 300Blk/Whisper (though it is allowed in Practical Optic).

Other considerations are weight, reticle, zero-stop, FFP versus SFP. I like the FFP for easy corrections read off sighters and hold for wind etc (though I dial for elevation).

Enough elevation range for 25-600yd is a given (and not usually a problem.

Budget will have a large part to play in what you choose. I think the Viper PSTs are excellent value and have no plans to change (it's been good enough for top ten placings and even one win- the optic is not the limiting factor.) Others will spend a lot of money and Schmidt and Bender etc. and though I would if I could, it isn't necessary.

[Airbrush]

What Whizzbang said.

1-8x scopes are getting very popular.

[JS569]

I use a vortex 1-6 Vortex strike eagle that I've used for Urban on PO class, only the third time I've used it but my scores improved especially at 25m where I cranked it right down and that seemed to help.

I was going to start my own thread but saw this so thought I'd add to it as I had a CSR score related question.

I've invested in a 308 for the longer range matches and have put an old ziess 3-10 x40 scope on. I think it's more of a hunting scope and the turrets are difficult to adjust in fine warm weather, never mind a wet winters day, so I was wondering about changing up to something with a touch more magnification and easier turrets to adjust.

As someone mentioned, a lot of the guys have spent solid cash on scopes and I see the logic to that. However, I don't want to drop that much cash as I feel I won't get the benefits and as much as I love shooting I've got other things that unfortunately need my finances. So I've set a budget between 500-700ish which having done some research points me in two routes:
Buy new: Vortex Viper HS-T 6-24×50 (more info look here: https://www.opticswarehouse.co.uk/produ ... iflescope/) - seems to get very good reviews and I like the scope I have above.

Or try and buy second-hand something a bit better like a Leupold Mk4 which are circa £750. Obviously a great scope and good value for a £1,300ish new scope.


What would anyone recommend? Am I missing any others? Bushnells seem to get quite a good rep from some online reviews. I'm only just getting into this longer range game so it's all new to me but I'm reading and watching as much as I can to ensure I understand everything such as FFP V SFP on scopes etc.

[Maggot]

This is a bugger. Another bloody essay from maggot!!

The honest answer really is as follows I guess (in my opinion and having just splashed out for a Steiner MXi5 for a BAR10....).

CSR is short to medium range, fairly rapid at times, and it is often difficult to make out specific aiming points. You may well find that centre of mass is the best you can manage at times.

Firstly, you will be coming on aim quickly and in all lighting conditions.

* Can you pick up the ret easily against a variable background and aim accurately with it. Do you like simple or cluttered? Cross or dot?

* Can you mount the scope in such a way that that it will naturally fall on aim without moving your had about? (Airbrush once told me to stick my beak on the ARs T handle...Spot on Andy and thanks, gives you the same eye relief every time ).

The latter is important because with some scopes (and some battle scopes as it goes) because there is a compromise between mag and parallax, so a slight movement of the head can shift the MPI, particularly on lower mags. Also, all singing all dancing ranging rets might look great on the TV, but when you want to pick up a target and hit it 5 times in 20 secs while you are in the sitting position and bouncing about like a jelly....Things can get really confusing.

You will as likely be dialling elevation and possibly wind

* Do you work in MOA or MRAD?

* Are the turrets easily set and repeatable?

* If you dont dial wind and use aim off and miss drills, are there enough ref points on the central stadia (that goes through the centre when elevation is set).

It gets awful difficult to aim off for elevation and wind into the sand and why bother getting elevations if the damned sight wont track.

Do your eyes like it? Sounds daft but glass simply enhances the light entering the eye, one mans perfection may be another mans nightmare.

Look at what the military are using. I was taken with the Trigicon accufire 1-8x. I still am, but the problem to me is that it is FFP (IIRC, ret gets larger with mag) and is a cross. My eyes like dots, always have.

How much mag do you need? Many DMR rifles are fitted with 1-6x scopes for use out to 800m. Many believe that if they turn the mag down it wobbles less. Wrong. But what does happen is that you tend to chase it more and make it wobble. When you think that high power shooters shoot out to 600 with irons (accurately) then mag is a moot point in CSR as that is as far as we ever go, it may help in the urban (where the target rings are all used) or the Bisley Bullet.

Also, one of the big issues with high mag scopes is that IF you use them with a rifle that jumps about a bit (7.62x51 or even 5.56x45 with no brake, and you are not slung up) if you ignore the second principle (rifle must point naturally at the target without any undue physical effort) then when she settles after firing and you are following through, she may well settle 2 targets down (been there done it and seen it done with high mag PO rifles, it gets everyone sometime).

As has been said, do you want to shoot SO, PO or both? High mag can be a sod standing.

And finally how much are you prepared to spend? I am not rich, but knowing what I know now I wont spend less than a K on glass (unless its decent second hand). Rifles barrels burn out and peoples physiology changes, but good glass gets kept and moved to new rifles. This is not to say that lesser scopes are no good, but you will often see people trade up as they improve. There are many being used, S&B, Niteforce, Vortex, Steiner, Elcan, Trijicon,

In short the best way to find out is to go to a shoot and talk to the shooters and ideally try scopes on the rifles. I dont think there is a one size fits all people/tasks, but the number of certain Marques being used in the league by those that shoot regularly will give you an idea.

[breacher]

Money spent on good glass is never wasted.

I have a tatty ( on the outside ) 8-32x56 Nightforce NXS that started life in maritime security being handled roughly. It was one of a batch of 15 that I managed to dispose of for my then employer. I ended up keeping the tattiest for myself as it worked perfectly and nobody was interested.

Its since been on a few rifles over the tears and is still performing just as it should. Its new paint job ( free as it was a table prize ) is also looking tatty now - an indication of the abuse it gets and it has not let me down !!!

If you wanted to spend a little more and have a scope to last a lifetime........I have a NEW 8-32 NXS you can have at just under trade price.

As to standing - yes 8x is pushing it but entirely manageable.

[BamBam]

I've only shot a couple of matches, but was very happy with my 2.5-10 x 44 Vortex PST.

[JS569]

Money spent on good glass is never wasted.

I have a tatty ( on the outside ) 8-32x56 Nightforce NXS that started life in maritime security being handled roughly. It was one of a batch of 15 that I managed to dispose of for my then employer. I ended up keeping the tattiest for myself as it worked perfectly and nobody was interested.

Its since been on a few rifles over the tears and is still performing just as it should. Its new paint job ( free as it was a table prize ) is also looking tatty now - an indication of the abuse it gets and it has not let me down !!!

If you wanted to spend a little more and have a scope to last a lifetime........I have a NEW 8-32 NXS you can have at just under trade price.

As to standing - yes 8x is pushing it but entirely manageable.

I agree and would happily spend more but unfortunately reality hits. Currently, I'm only being competitive with myself as it seems a steep learning curve. I bought the rifle used so am happy to buy a used scope. It's probably just a case of keeping an eye out. I think someone mentioned it above, the best thing to do it try lots of scopes and see what works for others and then what might work for me. The vortex seems like a good option to get going with but I'm in no rush so I'll hang about, shoot a bit with the current set up and see what my thoughts are - I'll also keep an eye out on the second hand market.

[Maggot]

I'll also keep an eye out on the second hand market.

There are plenty of gear tarts about in shooting as well as photography, quite convinced that the latest model will buy them the extra points. Usually they would do better to stick with what they have and learn to use it, but the good news is that it means there is a steady supply of decent, reduced in price scopes about. Newest is not always best either, anyone remember the fiasco with the new Nite force F class scopes several years back, they were shocking and had to be re-designed. I also remember when most of my club "Simply had" to re-equip with March. Spookilly not one of them improved their scores and thank god I stuck with my Sightron. I wonder what happened to all the scopes that became redundant back then Nothing wrong with March, brilliant scopes, but if you were not up to scratch to start with.....

[Maggot]

As to standing - yes 8x is pushing it but entirely manageable.

Unless you happen to be called "Moran"....then the DTs may be a problem