Ruger American Rifle Predator

[mag41uk]

Any one have one?

https://www.ruger.com/products/american ... 26922.html

[greenshoots]

on paper it looks good value

greenshoots

[Ovenpaa]

..and in 6,5 Grendel as well. I seldom look at modern (ish) rifles or cartridges these days however this is one cartridge I keep coming back to. I have a PPC bolt face action here however the Ruger could well be cheaper than going down the stock, barrel, reamer and proof route.

[mag41uk]

..and in 6,5 Grendel as well. I seldom look at modern (ish) rifles or cartridges these days however this is one cartridge I keep coming back to. I have a PPC bolt face action here however the Ruger could well be cheaper than going down the stock, barrel, reamer and proof route.

There is something about the Grendel. I think Howa make one. The Ruger appeals due to mag capacity and cost and its attractive.
It appears to have positive reviews.
Whether Viking are importing is another matter - I never seem to get any response emailing them!
The other Ruger that interests me is the ranch rifle in 7.62 x 39.

[Laurie]

I've seen a few American reviews of the Predator including that of one in 6.5 Grendel. As with other budget 'starter' rifles that sell for very low prices in the US, it shoots much better than the price point would imply. However, there were complaints about poor bolt/action finish on at least one test rifle - for instance the top cartridge in the magazine badly scored by serious sharp burrs left on the bolt body.

The problem for any UK importer of these budget US models is that after export-importation costs including ITAR compliance, mandatory proofing, screw-cutting muzzles, if needed, to meet the now near universal sporting user desire here to shoot with a sound moderator, retail prices are now no longer attractive for such basic models. I suspect that over in the USA where the market for budget rifles is so much larger especially as in the absence of a universal licensing system for bolt-action 'hunting rifles' they can be an impulse purchase, manufacturers and gunstore owners are willing to take tiny margins to get customers over the threshold often to talk them into buying something dearer, or to see repeat business as satisfied customers later trade-up. The larger dealerships can also make large orders that attract manufacturers' discounts given their huge sales volumes by UK standards.

So far as Grendel availability goes, we finally have the makings of some good bolt-action choices for what has been up to now very much a US AR-15 orientated number. CZ is offering its Cz527 MBR target model in this chambering:

https://www.czub.cz/en/cz-527-varmint-mtr.html

This doesn't look a cheap rifle and I've yet to hear of any centrefire MBRs appearing (the rimfire 452 based model is here now), so don't know if it'll be available at all, never mind in quantity at affordable prices.

What is here - I have one and was undertaking load development on the range a couple of days ago with it in fact - is the Howa 1500 Mini, the new super-short action model (1-inch shorter receiver and bolt than the standard 'short' action) restricted to a quartet of cartridges that are within the 2.26" 223 Rem length limit - 223 Rem; 300 AAC Blackout; 7.62X39mm; 6.5mm Grendel, mine being in 6.5G. With the basic HTI plastic sporting stock, prices are low - just under £600 if you shop around for the standard sporter variant.

Mine is the 'Varmint' model with a 20-inch screwcut heavier profile barrel (not truly heavy though, but for these four cartridges heavy enough) in the new MDT Oryx chassis, a really great combination. I've yet to see an RRP, but Brian Fox (Fox Firearms UK of Stockport / Diggle Ranges) is hoping to sell the Oryx models for under £1,000 once he has done a deal with the UK importer Highland Outdoors Ltd.

https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/howa/howa-oryx/

On the range, the Grendel is already showing it is a fussy eater - a 0.1gn powder charge variation can make a big difference. Most combinations I've used up to now will group under the inch at 100 yards (5-shot groups), I've found a few that'll produce half that, and managed a very nice 0.35" in my last session with the 120gn Lapua Scenar-L and Viht N133 at just over 2,400 fps. There are lots and lots of suitable bullets in the 100-130gn class and still plenty of suitable powders post-Reach. As US AR Grendel shooters report barrel life in the 8-10,000 round range, you don't have to stint on experimental loads and with its light recoil can shoot all day. A steady rate of fire of 20 or so rounds that would see a heavy-barrel 308's barrel quickly get too hot and necessitate a cooling-off stop, only makes the Howa's barrel mildly warm.

Components and dies are readily available (Lapua cases - expensive at £1.08 each, but very good quality and should last a long, long time - PPU at half that.) For the non-handloading shooter, 223 and 7.62 will remain cheaper and with good availability, but for the keen handloader the Grendel has to be a viable all-purpose number - economical, potentially capable of excellent precision, excellent external ballistics even with modest MVs in the 2,350-2,450 fps range. 120 and 123gn bullets remain supersonic to 1,000 yards. With suitable powders, the 20-inch barrel will also just achieve 1,700 ft/lb ME making it viable for deerstalkers nationwide - 120gn weight bullets need 2,500 fps. Even as the heavier match / varmint model, the little Howa Oryx would make a very handy field rifle indeed.

[mag41uk]

As ever, Laurie, thank you for your well researched and hands on experience input.
This is something that I will need to look at.
I do have 100 new Lapua cases with no home at the moment!
The reloading side of it is as important as the shooting.

[Laurie]

It's an easy enough cartridge to handload, mechanically akin to 223 or 7.62X39mm. One thing to watch is headspace - the base to shoulder dimensions on new Lapua cases is really on the short side giving 5 or 6 thou' clearance. With 90% of Grendel rounds being fired in gas-powered ARs in the USA, many the product of DIY assembly, I suspect Lapua has deliberately set this up this way to ensure 100% bolt lock-up in almost any semi-auto. It does mean that results in the Howa in virgin brass are noticeably less consistent than those in subsequent FL sized rounds.

Bill Alexander warns new users that QuickLOAD is unreliable. It probably is with default settings, but so far I've found that with the actual (significantly reduced) water capacity used, QL is giving remarkably accurate predictions, often to within 10 fps. Bill Alexander also says that the cartridge is VERY primer-sensitive, and recommends finding a promising load combination then trying different makes / models. As I have many hundreds of SR primers in relatively small lots I'm using the cartridge to use them up first before trying some of the mainstream ones. As most loads generate 50,000 psi or less and the Howa seems to have an excellent firing pin to bolt fit, I'm now onto the original Murom SRs (PMC branded) the super-soft cup model that is no good in most cartridges and it's managing fine, no blanking at all and barely cratering with some of the higher pressure loads.

Mentioning pressure brings me onto a SAAMI v CIP discrepancy. The former is a low 50,000 psi MAP, the latter nearly 8,000 psi higher. Nearly all loads data are for the former. Given that 1gn extra powder approximates to +5,000 psi in this tiny cartridge, it offers us more scope in bolt guns than US AR-15 shooters have. I'm very wary of 'pushing' the little beast, but many powders give their best performance on achieving and exceeding 50,000 psi, especially ball types which are very suited to this number because of their density. I'm looking for good grouping loads in combinations where QuickLOAD calculates PMax in the low 50,000s psi.

US go-to powders with 107/108 and 120gn bullets are H. BL-C(2); H. CFE223, Ramshot Tac, IMR-8208 XBR, Viht N133 (less so), Alliant AR-Comp. BL-C(2) and 8208 are no longer with us thanks to Reach of course, the others are, including (I hope) AR-Comp which I have on order. Very highest MVs seem to be the preserve of CFE223, but given experience in other cartridges, I'd reckon it'll need a hot primer for consistent ignition and MVs. QL suggests Ramshot Wild Boar (Accurate-2520 in the USA) is actually a better match to the internal ballistics than its slightly faster burning Tac stablemate, but have yet to try that one.

My findings and a rifle test will appear in Target Shooter online fairly soon once I get some more range time in.

[Dorset_shooter]

..and in 6,5 Grendel as well. I seldom look at modern (ish) rifles or cartridges these days however this is one cartridge I keep coming back to. I have a PPC bolt face action here however the Ruger could well be cheaper than going down the stock, barrel, reamer and proof route.

There is something about the Grendel. I think Howa make one. The Ruger appeals due to mag capacity and cost and its attractive.
It appears to have positive reviews.
Whether Viking are importing is another matter - I never seem to get any response emailing them!
The other Ruger that interests me is the ranch rifle in 7.62 x 39.

We have a Ruger Ranch in 7.62x39 , good cheap rifle.

I hope you don't mind a sloppy bolt though, not the best quality but that's reflected in the price.

It takes mini-30 mags so 10+ capacity rather than the 3-4 round flush mag that comes with it.

[Ovenpaa]

Dorset_shooter, if that is used would you mind PM'ing me a link and/or price please.

Laurie, the CZ 527 MTR is a beautiful looking rifle and one I am keeping an eye out for, although I do wonder just how much north of GBP1k it is going to be.

[Laurie]

Laurie, the CZ 527 MTR is a beautiful looking rifle and one I am keeping an eye out for, although I do wonder just how much north of GBP1k it is going to be.

I was very attracted to it too. They're now appearing in people's hands in the USA since late spring, albeit very slowly and I've seen references on other forums to long waits before the dealer finally gets one from CZ USA. A Google search doesn't come up with any US dealers advertising them suggesting there aren't any sitting around waiting on buyers. The only two examples I could find online were a Canadian (British Columbia) gunshop wanting $1,340 and a site for an Italian outfit called Bignami S.p.A. listing a 223 MTR priced at 1,120 Euros.

I was intrigued by a reference to it on the UK Stalking Directory Forum, by a regular southern US member whose username is 'Muir' and who possesses a vast arsenal of rifles and is amongst other things very into 303 Military rifles and cast-lead 'boollit' loading for them. He has an MTR (can't remember the cartridge but I suspect either 7.62X39 or more likely Grendel) and states it wouldn't group below 0.75-MOA until he did a pillar bedding job on it. He went on to say he's done this on several wood stock Cz527s and in his opinion is essential on the MTR to realise its potential.