Accuracy of long barrel pistols

[DavidRees]

Posted on a thread about Handguns, a while back, so perhaps you missed it:

http://full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f= ... 6&start=10

I called the two flyers (out of X ring) as I shot the string, so they are the result of my error, not a fault in the pistol or ammunition.

The K22 with good ammo is pretty accurate.

[jack1]

Almost none of the latchety barrel pistols have ever been competitive for precision pistol shooting. They are basically combat guns that, if enough time, money and effort is put into them can sometimes be made to shoot fairly well.

(They are brilliant at doing what they were designed for)

The S&W Mod 52 was designed to be the all singing, all dancing target pistol, chambered in .38 spec wadcutter but, although a good quality pistol and nice to shoot, it couldn't compete with more modern European designs like the FAS, Pardini, Walther etc. in pure accuracy competitions. All having fixed barrels, .32 cal. and low sight line.

If you're looking for an accurate pistol for target shooting try one of the modern 10m air pistols.

The S&W pass mark for the Mod 52 when shot from a machine rest was 2" at 50 yards.

From personal experience I would favorably compare the Model 52 with any others you mention. Also with the correct load I would achieve far better than 2 inches group at 50 metres offhand unsupported. The '52' still hold the world record for 50 yards (USA)

[jack1]

The position of the barrel have nothing to do with accuracy......

My point was that that the relationship between the position of the barrel and the position of the sights has EVERYTHING to do with accuracy...

If that relationship is not consistent, the gun is never going to be accurate, so something with sights rigidly fixed to the barrel will be better.

I could not disagree more. Much has been said of the S&W model 52 and is still today holder of records and it was in every sense a semi auto just a semi auto. The difference was the engineering, balance, grip, sighting front and rear and the load configuration 148 hollow base wadcutter. The best of which was something like 2,8 grains of Bullseye with a definite roll crimp. As I said in other replies it won me high master classification in 1500 PPC.

[jack1]

Regarding the Buckmark I take your point but really think that it is what it is a modified rifle and I really want 'proper'.

Strictly speaking the BuckMark is a pistol and has been for a quarter of a century; the carbine came after the pistol. The perverse nature of LBPs over here means we have to start with the carbine and almost return it to its native form :)

If you look on the Browning web sight you will see "Buck mark rifle" and "Buckmark pistol". The Buckmark pistol we have here is made from the rifle which is clear to see. Both have been 'around' for years long before our idiotic rules required a rifle to be converted to a pistol.

[Daryll]

The position of the barrel have nothing to do with accuracy......

My point was that that the relationship between the position of the barrel and the position of the sights has EVERYTHING to do with accuracy...

If that relationship is not consistent, the gun is never going to be accurate, so something with sights rigidly fixed to the barrel will be better.

I could not disagree more. Much has been said of the S&W model 52 and is still today holder of records and it was in every sense a semi auto just a semi auto. The difference was the engineering, balance, grip, sighting front and rear and the load configuration 148 hollow base wadcutter. The best of which was something like 2,8 grains of Bullseye with a definite roll crimp. As I said in other replies it won me high master classification in 1500 PPC.

Yes the S&W 52 was a semi auto, the same as a GSG 1911... in the same way that a Rolls Royce is a car, the same as a Dacia...

Back in the mid 80's I was fortunate enough to shoot a magazine full through a model 52, and yes, that was a Rolls of a gun, but you cannot compare that with the 1911 LBP clones that we have today.

Like 1066 my first ever pistol was a Browning 150 for shooting UIT, I later progressed to a Pardini Fiocchi, and both of them would outshoot any of todays LBP's... and both had sights fixed to the barrel...

[1066]

Almost none of the latchety barrel pistols have ever been competitive for precision pistol shooting. They are basically combat guns that, if enough time, money and effort is put into them can sometimes be made to shoot fairly well.

(They are brilliant at doing what they were designed for)

The S&W Mod 52 was designed to be the all singing, all dancing target pistol, chambered in .38 spec wadcutter but, although a good quality pistol and nice to shoot, it couldn't compete with more modern European designs like the FAS, Pardini, Walther etc. in pure accuracy competitions. All having fixed barrels, .32 cal. and low sight line.

If you're looking for an accurate pistol for target shooting try one of the modern 10m air pistols.

The S&W pass mark for the Mod 52 when shot from a machine rest was 2" at 50 yards.

From personal experience I would favorably compare the Model 52 with any others you mention. Also with the correct load I would achieve far better than 2 inches group at 50 metres offhand unsupported. The '52' still hold the world record for 50 yards (USA)

Different sort of competitions Jack - When I started shooting UIT centrefire matches (late 70's) I was using a S&W Mod 14 K38 (Target), I was not alone, there was a fair mix, a few 52's, a few continental semi-auto .32's, the odd Manurhin .32 revolver or .45 Gold Cup. 10 years later, the ONLY pistols that were competitive were the continental .32 semi-autos shooting the full wadcutter S&W long. Remember, the UIT matches are all shot one handed with open sights.

[Sim G]

The only thing available to the UK that would give the sort of performance you're looking for is the Morini Long Arm free pistol. Single shot, but very, very accurate.

There are the odd Westlake Britarms around as well....

[1066]

My current target pistol: :)

[ordnance]

Most handguns long or short barrels will out shoot most shooters.

[Kungfugerbil]

If you look on the Browning web sight you will see "Buck mark rifle" and "Buckmark pistol". The Buckmark pistol we have here is made from the rifle which is clear to see. Both have been 'around' for years long before our idiotic rules required a rifle to be converted to a pistol.

Actually the BuckMark - which is a pistol - came into being in the early 80s but can trace its lineage back to the Colt Woodsman of a hundred years ago.

The carbine came into existence in 2001. It's quite obviously a pistol with a long barrel and a stock attached.