Martini Carbine quandary

[JS569]

I went to see my gunsmith / RFD friend today and he's more of shotgun and black powder type of guy. He said that he's been asked to take something away from a house following a death.

What he showed me was (see pics) a .303 1896 dated Martini Carbine. The bore is not good but apart from that it's in very good condition. This rifle has been hanging on a wall for years and years as a 'deac'. However all that's happened is that a hacksaw has been used to cut into the breach of the barrel, cutting a 2mm wide gap into the barrel down to about halfway so it's no shootable. Apparently, this was quite common in the 60's and the rifle has been hung there since. The previous owner had an FAC and this was never an issue with the police. I suspect the police never bothered to check it and assumed it was deac or obsolete being of a martini pattern.

My friend doesn't want much for it (what ever we decide I'll probably have it) so I said I'd take it from him as curio piece. It's now on his register so this essentially gives me two options:

1. Have it properly deactivated - or does it need doing since it's been made unusable? The RFD thinks is does.
2. Try and source a barrel and get an appropriate slot on my license.

Within those two options, there's numerous points to consider:
Deactivation:
Modern deactivation (I believe) trashes a rifle and it seems a shame with the firearm in such good condition to weld it up. However, it does mean I can have it out on display.
Alternatively does the current form of deactivation stand as it was done years ago? I have no way to prove this just based on the dealers words. Or is there an exemption for old firearms that you wish to keep in a 'live' state but not use - just spitballing ideas as I'm not keen on seeing it milled and cut more than it is!

Bringing it to life/ sourcing a barrel:
This would be ideal as I have numerious 303's already and it would be nice shooting piece to have. However, I imagine sourcing a barrel for these is near impossible and could be very expensive, thus far exceeding the value of rifle.

I only went to drop my S/G off for a service but he know's I'm interested in 303 military rifles so know's whatever state I had it in that I would enjoy it. So full-bore what do you think I should do or can do?

PICTURES HERE: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MnH6EBmXgpvpntb12

[Mattnall]

If it was deactivated to an older 'spec' I think it might still be classed as a deact especially if you have the certificate for it.
But I would get some expert advice on it before hanging it on the wall.

[himself]

If it had been submitted to the proof house when it was deacted they would still have records.
There are to be new rules on de-acts coming into force in June 2018.
There will be a record of this at the proof house so your RFD should contact them for advice.
The proof house will have more information than the firearm departments.
Over the last few years the spec for de-acts has changed radically .I think you are ok to own the older style de-acts so long as you have the original but you cannot sell or give it to someone else.
As a holder of a certificate you should make sure it is ok to possess. De-acts are a minefield so make sure you
Get advice on this from those that that are qualified to give the correct advice.

[Robert303]

It is a 'Defective DeActivation' and cannot be transferred under the new EU directive.
You could try Terry Abrams who deactivates a lot of old rifles he MAY have something
to help you.

[Alpha1]

It's not a deactivated rifle my advice would be to walk away. To much of a minefield. Let it go.

[GeeRam]

I went to see my gunsmith / RFD friend today and he's more of shotgun and black powder type of guy. He said that he's been asked to take something away from a house following a death.

What he showed me was (see pics) a .303 1896 dated Martini Carbine. The bore is not good but apart from that it's in very good condition. This rifle has been hanging on a wall for years and years as a 'deac'. However all that's happened is that a hacksaw has been used to cut into the breach of the barrel, cutting a 2mm wide gap into the barrel down to about halfway so it's no shootable. Apparently, this was quite common in the 60's and the rifle has been hung there since. The previous owner had an FAC and this was never an issue with the police. I suspect the police never bothered to check it and assumed it was deac or obsolete being of a martini pattern.

My friend doesn't want much for it (what ever we decide I'll probably have it) so I said I'd take it from him as curio piece. It's now on his register so this essentially gives me two options:

1. Have it properly deactivated - or does it need doing since it's been made unusable? The RFD thinks is does.
2. Try and source a barrel and get an appropriate slot on my license.

Within those two options, there's numerous points to consider:
Deactivation:
Modern deactivation (I believe) trashes a rifle and it seems a shame with the firearm in such good condition to weld it up. However, it does mean I can have it out on display.
Alternatively does the current form of deactivation stand as it was done years ago? I have no way to prove this just based on the dealers words. Or is there an exemption for old firearms that you wish to keep in a 'live' state but not use - just spitballing ideas as I'm not keen on seeing it milled and cut more than it is!

Bringing it to life/ sourcing a barrel:
This would be ideal as I have numerious 303's already and it would be nice shooting piece to have. However, I imagine sourcing a barrel for these is near impossible and could be very expensive, thus far exceeding the value of rifle.

I only went to drop my S/G off for a service but he know's I'm interested in 303 military rifles so know's whatever state I had it in that I would enjoy it. So full-bore what do you think I should do or can do?

PICTURES HERE: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MnH6EBmXgpvpntb12

If there is no London or Birmingham de-act proof mark on it, then it's not a de-act in current legislation, from what I understand. However, and memory is a little vague here as it's long time ago, this de-act proof mark legislation didn't occur until 1988/9 ish..?
So, as you say, a de-act from the 1960's/70's era was done in a fairly basic way as this example, and so if no de-act proof marks are anywhere on it, its technically just a damaged live firearm.
As such, I would have thought you have two choices.
* De-activate to current legislation and submit for de-act proofing.
* Re-barrel and re-proof and put on your FAC or sell on as Sect 1.

[Chapuis]

Have it re-barrelled to .45-70 and export it to the U.S. I don't know if its still the same but a few years ago the Americans couldn't get enough of them.

[JS569]

I went to see my gunsmith / RFD friend today and he's more of shotgun and black powder type of guy. He said that he's been asked to take something away from a house following a death.

What he showed me was (see pics) a .303 1896 dated Martini Carbine. The bore is not good but apart from that it's in very good condition. This rifle has been hanging on a wall for years and years as a 'deac'. However all that's happened is that a hacksaw has been used to cut into the breach of the barrel, cutting a 2mm wide gap into the barrel down to about halfway so it's no shootable. Apparently, this was quite common in the 60's and the rifle has been hung there since. The previous owner had an FAC and this was never an issue with the police. I suspect the police never bothered to check it and assumed it was deac or obsolete being of a martini pattern.

My friend doesn't want much for it (what ever we decide I'll probably have it) so I said I'd take it from him as curio piece. It's now on his register so this essentially gives me two options:

1. Have it properly deactivated - or does it need doing since it's been made unusable? The RFD thinks is does.
2. Try and source a barrel and get an appropriate slot on my license.

Within those two options, there's numerous points to consider:
Deactivation:
Modern deactivation (I believe) trashes a rifle and it seems a shame with the firearm in such good condition to weld it up. However, it does mean I can have it out on display.
Alternatively does the current form of deactivation stand as it was done years ago? I have no way to prove this just based on the dealers words. Or is there an exemption for old firearms that you wish to keep in a 'live' state but not use - just spitballing ideas as I'm not keen on seeing it milled and cut more than it is!

Bringing it to life/ sourcing a barrel:
This would be ideal as I have numerious 303's already and it would be nice shooting piece to have. However, I imagine sourcing a barrel for these is near impossible and could be very expensive, thus far exceeding the value of rifle.

I only went to drop my S/G off for a service but he know's I'm interested in 303 military rifles so know's whatever state I had it in that I would enjoy it. So full-bore what do you think I should do or can do?

PICTURES HERE: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MnH6EBmXgpvpntb12

If there is no London or Birmingham de-act proof mark on it, then it's not a de-act in current legislation, from what I understand. However, and memory is a little vague here as it's long time ago, this de-act proof mark legislation didn't occur until 1988/9 ish..?
So, as you say, a de-act from the 1960's/70's era was done in a fairly basic way as this example, and so if no de-act proof marks are anywhere on it, its technically just a damaged live firearm.
As such, I would have thought you have two choices.
* De-activate to current legislation and submit for de-act proofing.
* Re-barrel and re-proof and put on your FAC or sell on as Sect 1.

I'm thinking going down the re-barrel route might be the best bet! I've had a PM of a suggested source so price dependant I'd love to get it shooting again.

I thought that the current 'de-activation' wasn't legit, so to me, if I can get it barking again that would be the best result. It seems a shame for it not to be used as it was intended.

[450 Martini]

Interestingly this carbine was issued to the Royal 1st Devon Yeomanry during October 1893 and was later sold out of service. The chamber was most likely cut over a century ago as this was a common military deactivation for carbines issued to cadet organisations.

[JS569]

So an update. We'd potentially found a source of a 303 barrel but unfortunately, the source doesn't have one to the spec of the particular carbine.

With that in mind, I'm not sure what to do with it. Some have suggested that a 577 barrel could be put on so I can have a wall hanger. However, this won't work as the calibre isn't the original which it must be to be obsolete. Additionally the receiver has 303 stamped on it. Therefore I don't consider this an option.

Others have suggested a .22 conversion, sleeving the barrel and other minor adjustments. I've been told this could be difficult and sleeves are not easy to find.

Finally, deact it. However, the potential 303 barrel source said the following:

The deact rules are set to change yet again in June thanks to the EU dictatorship. This is in spite of the fact that the rules were changed in April 2016, again by the EU. The EU have destroyed the deact market. I would not deact anything at the moment, many people are now in possession of what were previously valuable collections that they are allowed to keep but cannot sell or even give away until they are re deactivated to the latest whim of the EU at a cost of £90.00 or so per item. Things might change when we eventually leave the dictatorship but I'm not holding my breath.

Now I'm at a loss as to what to do with it. It's currently still sat at the RFD with a cut in the barrel so is unusable but still classed as a functioning firearm!

What are your collective thoughts on what I should do? I'm confused! The reason I'm still looking into this is that the rifle is coming to me very cheaply so it currently seems worth it to continue working on the project.