Cambridgeshire Variations

Anything shooting related including law and procedure questions.

Moderator: dromia

Forum rules
Should your post be in Grumpy Old Men? This area is for general shooting related posts only please.
Message
Author
User avatar
Polchraine
Posts: 6011
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:46 pm
Location: Middlesex
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#11 Post by Polchraine »

To quote the guide:

it is illegal to complete a sale (accept full payment) for a firearm, Section 1
component part or accessory or shot gun to a person who cannot produce a
firearm or shot gun certificate authorising them to acquire the firearm etc. You
may only take a deposit on a purchase prior to sight of the relevant certificate
giving authority to purchase the firearm.


It does not state it is illegal to take a deposit. It says you can take a deposit to purchase prior to sight if the relevant certificate but forbids full payment. It does not say that the person has to have the slot of a cetificate at the time of placing the deposit and allows an RFD to take a deposit whilst waiting for sight of the certificate. There is no time limit so it could be 1 day of 1 year.


"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine."
- Abraham Lincoln

Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

God loves stupid people, that is why he made so many of them.
Christel
Site Admin
Posts: 16835
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:52 pm
Home club or Range: North Cotes Butts
Location: The Lincolnshire Wolds
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#12 Post by Christel »

We have discussed this many times on this forum, it does not change.

No slot, no deposit.
https://binbrook-gunsmiths.co.uk/

“It was a bright cold day in April, and the clocks were striking thirteen.”

- George Orwell, 1984

Everything I copy and paste can be found in the real world by using Google.
Practical shooter
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:02 pm
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#13 Post by Practical shooter »

I thought this was a discussion forum. Obviously not
User avatar
Alpha1
Site Supporter Since 2020
Posts: 7761
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#14 Post by Alpha1 »

Its been discussed lots of times. Do a search you can debate all you like the end result is the same no slot no deposit.
User avatar
Polchraine
Posts: 6011
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:46 pm
Location: Middlesex
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#15 Post by Polchraine »

Practical shooter wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:38 pm I thought this was a discussion forum. Obviously not
It is, but some are not prepared to discuss and accept incorrect advice.


The point is that the guidance as printed does not say it is illegal and cannot be done. It specifically syates a deposit can be taken "prior to the sight of a certificate giving authority to purchase" it does not say the purchaser must have a certificate at the time of placing a deposit.

I have a couple of meetings with my solicitors & legal advisers coming up, I will ask for their interpretation of the wording.

Also, that document is "GUIDANCE" and not the law.


"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine."
- Abraham Lincoln

Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

God loves stupid people, that is why he made so many of them.
User avatar
Alpha1
Site Supporter Since 2020
Posts: 7761
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#16 Post by Alpha1 »

We have at least two registered firearms dealers reply to this thread ( and others) telling us if you don,t have a slot they will not take a deposit. Speaking to your Solicitors will make no difference what so ever.
What is wrong with you people they have advised you in good faith of the requirements you need to stay within the law and keep plod happy. Its not rocket science get a variation then go buy the firearm in the caliber you want.
User avatar
Polchraine
Posts: 6011
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:46 pm
Location: Middlesex
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#17 Post by Polchraine »

Alpha1 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:55 pm We have at least two registered firearms dealers reply to this thread ( and others) telling us if you don,t have a slot they will not take a deposit. Speaking to your Solicitors will make no difference what so ever.
What is wrong with you people they have advised you in good faith of the requirements you need to stay within the law and keep plod happy. Its not rocket science get a variation then go buy the firearm in the caliber you want.

I have asked for an explanation of where the instruction comes from. The link provided does not say it and interpretation of te the text does not give that impression either.

To me it sounds like another of those "you have to do it this way" comments that proliferates. An RFD can decide not to accept a deposit, but that is their choice and no in line with the text.


"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine."
- Abraham Lincoln

Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

God loves stupid people, that is why he made so many of them.
User avatar
Alpha1
Site Supporter Since 2020
Posts: 7761
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#18 Post by Alpha1 »

Polchraine wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:05 pm
Alpha1 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:55 pm We have at least two registered firearms dealers reply to this thread ( and others) telling us if you don,t have a slot they will not take a deposit. Speaking to your Solicitors will make no difference what so ever.
What is wrong with you people they have advised you in good faith of the requirements you need to stay within the law and keep plod happy. Its not rocket science get a variation then go buy the firearm in the caliber you want.

I have asked for an explanation of where the instruction comes from. The link provided does not say it and interpretation of te the text does not give that impression either.

To me it sounds like another of those "you have to do it this way" comments that proliferates. An RFD can decide not to accept a deposit, but that is their choice and no in line with the text.
Why have you asked for an explanation are you looking to buy a firearm you don,t have a variation for why do you think you need to involve Solicitors. Has I said get a variation for the caliber you want then go buy the firearm what is so complicated about that. (By the way you need to use a spell checker.)
User avatar
Polchraine
Posts: 6011
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:46 pm
Location: Middlesex
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#19 Post by Polchraine »

Where have I said I am planning to buy? I am not involving solicitors but asking legally qualified how they would interpret the statement which does not stop someone placing a deposit, irrespective of whether they have a certificate/slot at that time.


"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine."
- Abraham Lincoln

Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

God loves stupid people, that is why he made so many of them.
User avatar
Blackstuff
Site Supporter Since 2015
Posts: 7172
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Cambridgeshire Variations

#20 Post by Blackstuff »

Polchraine wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:05 pm
I have asked for an explanation of where the instruction comes from. The link provided does not say it and interpretation of the text does not give that impression either.

To me it sounds like another of those "you have to do it this way" comments that proliferates. An RFD can decide not to accept a deposit, but that is their choice and no in line with the text.
This is entirely reasonable to me. The guidance contradicts what the practice is. A bit like up until about 5-6 years ago when most RFDs were operating the common sense, but not official line for firearms transfers (the receiving RFD filling in the certificate, not the sender).

IMHO if that was taken to court the case against an RFD/buyer would be thrown out in minutes as soon as the printed guidance was read out. But i'm saying that from the luxury of not being in that position. If I was an RFD i'd likely take the more cautious approach too.
DVC
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests