Box fed practical shotgun

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Tallguy
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Box fed practical shotgun

#1 Post by Tallguy »

Will shortly be in the market for a box fed practical shotgun. Been looking at the Typhoon range but what else would others suggest I evaluate please?
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Blackstuff
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Re: Box fed practical shotgun

#2 Post by Blackstuff »

There are a few threads on PSG gun choice on here that might be worth a read, but admittedly the search function is not very good :squirrel:

For information purposes; i've been shooting PSG competitively since 2006, the first 6-7 years in Standard Division with a Benelli M2 and the remainder with box fed shotguns, the Bora Arms BR99 for 4-5 years and the remainder with a Typhoon F12, and I'm the secretary (Chairman, safety officer and any other role you can heap on a person!) of a PSG only gun club.

The first thing i'd say is if this is going to be your first gun for PSG I would not recommend getting a box fed, shotgun cartridges were never designed to be fed through a magazine and that can make getting the gun to work reliably at the start a bit of a carry on. 9/10 it simply comes down to the correct cartridge selection but for whatever reason some people can't get their heads around this.

Turkey seems to release a 'new' box fed shotgun every month, with it being touted as the fastest/best/most tacticool thing ever. What actually happens is seemingly free from fear of copyright breach, they've copied a previous gun and stuck a slightly different receiver/body on it. Do NOT be taken in by this, especially if its a UK gun shop who does not specialise in PSG products hawking it, and even then be careful.

Most people on the UKPSA competition circuit in Open Division use either a Dissendent Arms KL12, Typhoon F12 or Armsan RS-S1. You need £4000 to play the KL12 game so not an option for most.

The F12 is a decent gun, however like all Turkish AR style guns it suffers from parts fatigue. My own personal experience is my F12 has been significantly better than my BR99 which required a replacement part every 6 months or so. So far in the years i've used my F12 i've had to replace the bolt hold open bolt (that works its way loose if you don't Locktite it), bolt carrier once and bolt lock once (both of them last year, both of them having been original parts - many people have reported significantly shorter service life on those parts). As someone who primarily shoots AR-15 style guns there was no retraining required to use an F12 and it was entirely instinctive, unsurprisingly as the AR controls are some of the best/most ergonomic out there.

The RS-S1 is also a Turkish gun, but a direct copy of Russian Saiga/Molots and does not appear to self-destruct, or at least to the same extent as the AR style guns. The only thing i'm aware of that NEEDS to be fettled straight away is removing the dust cover from the bolt group as that can cause some spectacular jams and it goes wrong on every single gun, given enough ammo/time. The other thing to check is the alignment of the front sight as some early models had twisted/canted front sights/gas tubes. After that its whether or not you can get on with AK style controls (which I struggle with). There are many people who have modified theirs to more of an AR style layout but getting the parts now is a nightmare.

The main issue with the RS-S1 now is getting magazines for any kind of reasonable price, and getting spare parts with the current situation in Russia. If the mags were freely available and at a reasonable price I would recommend anyone dead set on a box fed gun to get the RS-S1, but at present I would not, and would instead say the F12 is the better overall choice, with the caveat that you need to be prepared to replace parts.

Something to bear in mind when you're buying a shotgun for serious PSG is the total cost. With a box fed you need to factor in the cost of magazines and a rig to carry them. F12 mags were £40 each (if bought in batches of 3 or more from Cheshire Gun Room) while RS-S1 mags are £90 a throw at present (there are other mags out there that can be modified to work but in a comp gun that is far from ideal). As an absolute minimum you need 4, 5 is more comfortable, 6 is better and 10 is preferable (to allow you to rotate them to prolong their service life). Mag pouches can get you back anywhere from £5-£50 (Ebay knock off radio MBTR pouches to Kydex custom rigid ones), and decent belt for the pouches will be ~£50 (Double Alpha Academy or Magload 'Stiffy') - as a note don't cheap out on the belt, if using Kydex puches it has to be super rigid to support the not inconsiderable weight of 4-5 fully loaded mags).

So short version is get an F12 if you're determined to get a box fed, but i'd recommend going to a shoot or 3 before deciding on what type of gun to get (And take recommendations from people who only recommend one gun that they seem obsessed with a grain of salt)
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Re: Box fed practical shotgun

#3 Post by Tallguy »

Thanks for a very comprehensive reply. Exactly what I needed to know.
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Re: Box fed practical shotgun

#4 Post by Chuck »

What Blackstuff dsays:

"So short version is get an F12 if you're determined to get a box fed, but i'd recommend going to a shoot or 3 before deciding on what type of gun to get (And take recommendations from people who only recommend one gun that they seem obsessed with a grain of salt)" EXACTLY THAT!

Also get a gun that fits you, not just a "make" because that's what everyone else has. If it doesn't fit you and you can't operate it properly you'll not do too well in comps.

Try a few too - shoot them before committing to spending cash.

BTW: A word on Turkish shotguns - most are made for HUNTING or self defence, they do NOT have PSG competitions - so keep that in mind too.
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Re: Box fed practical shotgun

#5 Post by Airbrush »

Well done Blackstuff, no one else needs to comment. goodjob lol
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Re: Box fed practical shotgun

#6 Post by RDC »

I'll also echo Blackstuff's advice on getting to a match or three before buying. Have a look what the regulars are using and chat to them. Friendliest bunch of people i've ever encountered on the range are PSGers (and that goes for both NRA and UKPSA, bar a few specific individuals...) and they will be happy to share their experiences.

You may notice individuals forcefully recommending *insert relatively unknown Turkish brand AR* on the social media groups. But it tends to be people who have never attended a proper competition and have nothing to compare it to. It's great that they are happy with it, but to recommend it over options proven in hard competition is a bit ridiculous.

I say this as someone who doesn't attend every match, but I've attended plenty and also seen how people have got on whilst helping as an RO's assistant at Level3 and also assisting at safety course. You get to see what issues people can have in those situations.
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Re: Box fed practical shotgun

#7 Post by TattooedGun »

Blackstuff wrote: Fri May 27, 2022 8:27 am So short version is get an F12 if you're determined to get a box fed, but i'd recommend going to a shoot or 3 before deciding on what type of gun to get (And take recommendations from people who only recommend one gun that they seem obsessed with a grain of salt)
RDC wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:05 pm You may notice individuals forcefully recommending *insert relatively unknown Turkish brand AR* on the social media groups. But it tends to be people who have never attended a proper competition and have nothing to compare it to. It's great that they are happy with it, but to recommend it over options proven in hard competition is a bit ridiculous.
If you take just 1 thing away from this thread, let it be this.

People instinctively want to tout what they've spent their hard earned money on as the best thing since sliced bread, to make themselves feel like the more people they convince to go that route the more adulation they will get for having that piece of equipment.

People who don't compete in any significant manner seem to suffer this the worst alongside concentrating on how something looks, rather than how it performs.

Look at those at the top of the tables in each discipline, see what works, talk to them about what they've had to do to get things working reliably. Keep a close eye on those who have issues all day on nearly every stage.
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