Glock British Army

[DW58]

Hollow point?

Not under the rules of the Geneva Convention they can't....its ok for criminals to be shot by Police with expanding ammo, but Soldiers can only be shot with FMJ..

Hague Convention surely?

[Chuck]

whoooops my bad - forgot this was military stuff. .

Yes HP is not allowed for Military use (allegedly) under the Hague Convention but seemingly BTHP (Boat Tail Hollow Point MATCH ammo) is being used by US snipers in Afghanistan - BTHP is not designed to expand but seemingly it does..???

Standard ammo is full metal jacket.

Police of course CAN use hollowpoint as that is not covered by the Hague Convention.

A wiki explanation of HP for those who want one:

A hollow-point bullet is an expanding bullet that has a pit or hollowed out shape in its tip often intended to cause the bullet to expand upon entering a target in order to decrease penetration and disrupt more tissue as it travels through the target. It is also used for controlled penetration, where over-penetration could cause collateral damage (such as on an aircraft). In target shooting, they are used for greater accuracy and reduction of smoke, fouling, and lead vapor exposure, as hollow point bullets have an enclosed base while traditional bullets have an exposed lead base. In essence, the hollow point bullet has several purposes: hollow points are designed to increase in diameter once within the target, thus maximizing tissue damage and blood loss or shock, and to remain inside the target, thereby transferring all of its kinetic energy to that target (some fraction would remain in the bullet if it passed through instead). Jacketed hollow points (JHPs) or plated hollow points are covered in a coating of harder metal (usually a copper alloy or copper coated steel) to increase bullet strength and to prevent fouling the barrel with lead stripped from the bullet. The term hollow-cavity bullet is used to describe a hollow point where the hollow is unusually large, sometimes dominating the volume of the bullet, and causes extreme expansion or fragmentation on impact.[1]

Plastic tipped bullets are a type of (rifle) bullet meant to confer the aerodynamic advantage of the spitzer bullet (for example, see very-low-drag bullet) and the stopping power of hollow point bullets

[nickb834]

Hollow point?

Not under the rules of the Geneva Convention they can't....its ok for criminals to be shot by Police with expanding ammo, but Soldiers can only be shot with FMJ..

British soldiers haven't shot at soldiers for years. I understand that expanding is legit for current ops but would be a PR disaster.

Define years, pretty sure we've been shooting at soldiers quite recently:

1998 Former Yugoslavia
2001 Afghanistan (Taliban govt)
2003 Iraq (Saddams military)
2011 Libya (Hereford vs pro gaddafi)

Though if we're only talking large standing armies having a pop at each other (as opposed to coalitions efforts) - then I'd go 1982 1-0 to us ;-)

[Charlie Muggins]

Define years, pretty sure we've been shooting at soldiers quite recently:

1998 Former Yugoslavia
2001 Afghanistan (Taliban govt)
2003 Iraq (Saddams military)
2011 Libya (Hereford vs pro gaddafi)

Though if we're only talking large standing armies having a pop at each other (as opposed to coalitions efforts) - then I'd go 1982 1-0 to us ;-)

Pfft only half those count as soldiers I do take your point regarding Saddam's mob though. And as for Yugoslavia, that was 16 years ago! We have members here who weren't even born then

[phaedra1106]

Yugoslavia

That brings back some good memories smile2 I was working in the Federal Parliament in Belgrade just before it all kicked off (I take no responsibility for any of it!).

I've been meaning to take Jared over for a visit as there were some nice places to eat in Skadarlija when I was there.

Probably a lot more expensive now though, .5L of Bip beer was about 30p and in the hotel restaurant "Bif Stek" (beef steak) was 90p

[Chuck]

robably a lot more expensive now though, .5L of Bip beer was about 30p and in the hotel restaurant "Bif Stek" (beef steak) was 90p

A bit late in telling us now eh :lol: :lol: :lol:

[meles meles]

Ah, the things that ruin life for you oomans with false teeth...

[IsleShoot]

Belgrade is still cheap as chips and there is an awesome level 3 IPSC match there every August, well worth the trip.

[DaveB]

Hollow point?

Not under the rules of the Geneva Convention they can't....its ok for criminals to be shot by Police with expanding ammo, but Soldiers can only be shot with FMJ..

British soldiers haven't shot at soldiers for years. I understand that expanding is legit for current ops but would be a PR disaster.

Actually it's the Hague Convention that is more concerned with nature of allowable projectiles, though Additional Protocol IV to the Geneva Convention also applies. For signatories, expanding projectiles are only allowable in internal security and domestic policing operations, not on military operations against a foreign enemy (even one as evil as ISIL). Their use would indeed be a PR disaster. It's hard enough trying to explain in the answers to Ministerial Enquiries that Sierra BTHP Match projectiles are not 'hollow point' and do not expand. Trying to justify the use of genuine hollow-point ammunition just would not be possible. God save us from do-gooders who write letters to MPs, but who know nothing about ammunition!

[toffe wrapper]

Army ammo needs to be standard so in an emergency you do not get the wrong stuff so FMJ that complies with international law is all that is supplied.

I think it was the Swiss who had BTHP bullets approved for service use.
The US army may have had a little internal issue with the 175 sniper round and over eager JAG lawyer but that may be rumour.

As for the Army Glock no sharp sticky out bits to snag on other kit of if stuffed in jacket pocket. No safety to take off in a panic easy to clean and works in dusty sandy areas as well as mud.

TW

TW