The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

artiglio wrote:

bradaz11 wrote:

Brian838 wrote: Would be nice if they would grant grandfather rights on mars/lever release rather than an outright ban.

not all shooters share that view. I would rather have something I could sell if I wanted to

But, would it not be reasonable to offer owners either compensation or grandfather rights as a one time choice?

be more reasonable not to ban something on apearance

I can't see 50 cal survival,129 holders in the UK,I thought it was a lot more than that.....can't see Mars survival either...not with what looks like a dedicated team placed to remove them from us..

I never heard one word of compensation,I reckon we might just become out of pocket...

the running man wrote:I can't see 50 cal survival,129 holders in the UK,I thought it was a lot more than that.....can't see Mars survival either...not with what looks like a dedicated team placed to remove them from us..

I never heard one word of compensation,I reckon we might just become out of pocket...

The requirement to compensate is included in the draft bill.

Reading through it, its pretty hard not to get the impression that our fates are in the hands of people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, all the while being 'guided' by people with an obvious agenda which is contrary to our interests.

snayperskaya wrote:I don't think enough was said to explain just how hard it is to get components for the majority of obsolete calibres, such as cases, especially in any sort of quantity and quality......or am I wrong?.

It depends. .44 S&W Russian is for instance identical to .44 S&W Special / .44 Rem Magnum except it has a shorter case-body. Take easily obtained brass, one case trimmer, and it is then no harder to handload than the parent case. Same with early off-ticket Schmidt-Rubins with the 53.5mm length case v 55mm for the later S1 ammunition / rifles. Others will be much more difficult, in some cases so difficult no 'criminal armourer' would ever bother. (Not that an M1898 Schmidt is going to be of much use or appeal to your average inner-city gang member either, I'd imagine.)

Quantities? Machine-pistols aside, a revolver cylinder's worth of cartridges is all that is needed / supplied.

One thing that did make me smile a little was the senior copper going on about go down the market and around junk shops tonight and you'll own a fully functioning pistol or revolver tomorrow.

Unless you know VERY much what you're about, you're much more likely to be the proud (?) owner of 1) something that it really is impossible to make/get ammo for from any source, and/or 2) a clapped-out weakened example of something made in Belgium 150 years ago that was a piece of junk when new and even if you could find a way of feeding it, is just as likely to explode in your hand as work as a criminal tool.

Laurie wrote:

snayperskaya wrote:I don't think enough was said to explain just how hard it is to get components for the majority of obsolete calibres, such as cases, especially in any sort of quantity and quality......or am I wrong?.

It depends. .44 S&W Russian is for instance identical to .44 S&W Special / .44 Rem Magnum except it has a shorter case-body. Take easily obtained brass, one case trimmer, and it is then no harder to handload than the parent case. Same with early off-ticket Schmidt-Rubins with the 53.5mm length case v 55mm for the later S1 ammunition / rifles. Others will be much more difficult, in some cases so difficult no 'criminal armourer' would ever bother. (Not that an M1898 Schmidt is going to be of much use or appeal to your average inner-city gang member either, I'd imagine.)

Quantities? Machine-pistols aside, a revolver cylinder's worth of cartridges is all that is needed / supplied.

It's back to the old problem - Legislation only controls the law abiding. Your avarage crack deal won't give a hoot about accuracy, how many calibres could a cut down .410 cartridge with a single ball bearing "fit". Remember it's only got to go bang most of the time. If illegal guns/ammunition start to get scarce on the streets then the market price goes up to the point where it's worth the risk/trouble of filling the gap, money no object if your average moped mugger is making £2,000 a day in central london.

Blackstuff wrote:Reading through it, its pretty hard not to get the impression that our fates are in the hands of people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, all the while being 'guided' by people with an obvious agenda which is contrary to our interests.

So true.

Blackstuff wrote:Reading through it, its pretty hard not to get the impression that our fates are in the hands of people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, all the while being 'guided' by people with an obvious agenda which is contrary to our interests.

How very very true.
What I also find particularly disconcerting is the obvious interest in "uncontrolled reloading components", next on the agenda perhaps!

Chapuis wrote:

Blackstuff wrote:Reading through it, its pretty hard not to get the impression that our fates are in the hands of people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, all the while being 'guided' by people with an obvious agenda which is contrary to our interests.

How very very true.
What I also find particularly disconcerting is the obvious interest in "uncontrolled reloading components", next on the agenda perhaps!

This issue is one which which appears every so often, and led to the current controls on primers via the VIolent Crime Reductuon Act of 2006. The Home Office accepted that was sufficient at the time.

What is worrying is that you had one expert having to correct the other by making the point primers, with the exception of those used for shotguns, are already controlled. If the official suggesting there were no controls whatsoever did so deliberately, rather than in error he should be held accountable.

Ceri