The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Actually, forget it.

I'm starting to feel that this site is a fact-free, evidence-free zone, and that referring to facts and evidence is seen as an attempt to cause trouble.

Which in my case it absolutely is not. I never intend or want to cause trouble, but I do recognise that when I act in accordance with my strong regard for facts and evidence, and my strong belief in the vital importance of truth and honesty, there are people here that react aggressively and insultingly to that, and then I get blamed for the discord that they have created.

It ought to be possible to discuss the evidence of the toxic damage done by lead in the environment, the experiences from other countries where lead shot has been banned, whether the environmental concerns extend to lead bullets used in shooting ranges, and so on without rancour and conflict, but my experience to date does not give me any hope that it actually is.

See my other post to you, I am sure no one doubts the principle you are advocating, but there is evidence and evidence and the misuse of "evidence" "research" and "facts" over the years, fake news is not a new thing, creates a somewhat jaundiced view amongst some of us.

My experience of this world is the belief however tenuous the "proof" will always trump, playing card reference no POTUS, evidence any day as at the end of the day you have to believe the evidence and that is a choice.

Theory and practice are two very different things that rarely meet especially when you put people into the mix the vast majority of whom aren't even on the same spectrum as Spock.

I admire your tenacity in pursuing such an approach which has merit, and should be a way of wading through the faecal matter of life, however with humans in the mix then you need intelligence, integrity, honesty, humility and rectitude, these qualities are sorely lacking in so many human beings especially seemingly those involved in "research" that unpicking it is an almost impossible task.

I wish you luck in your search for irrefutable evidence in support of legal gun ownership and look forward to you sharing it here to a hearty welcome from all concerned.

dromia wrote:See my other post to you,

I did (after I posted the above, I should perhaps point out)

My experience of this world is the belief however tenuous the "proof" will always trump, playing card reference no POTUS, evidence any day as at the end of the day you have to believe the evidence and that is a choice.

True. Even to the extent that some people choose not to believe the evidence that the world is round, and instead choose to believe something for which there is no evidence.

I just don't think that people should stoop to the level of their "opponents", if that is what their opponents are doing.

There's never beeen a conflict successfully resolved where those who were once sworn enemies haven't eventually sat down and talked, but I take all your points on board, and I'll try to accept that there's no willingness for that yet in the pro- vs anti-gun one. Maybe there will be in my lifetime, or maybe the antis will win.

I wish you luck in your search for irrefutable evidence in support of legal gun ownership and look forward to you sharing it here to a hearty welcome from all concerned.

Maybe unwise to suggest that such a thing is even possible