FirearmsUK - Unity 2015

[Mike357]

Which of course is why they are actively supporting the creation of The Scottish Shooting Centre of Excellence.

[DL.]

Meanwhile in another thread we are telling people who is cheap for insurance!

What impact will a one man band Scottish shooting organisation have?

<shakes head>

There is no one man band in Scotland. There are organisations north of the border that are preferable to some as they offer a more locally focussed approach, and don't waste money on vehicles for their staff, ostentatious buildings etc, but rather spend their members money - on representing their members.

Why don't you put your efforts into ironing out the problems with the National organisations, rather than finding fault with ones in a country that has less than 10% of the national population.

[Countryman]

See how emotive?

Point is these small organisations don't have any presence and don't have the ear of the decision makers. They are really just insurance brokers.

They may be lovely people but they just cut a slice of cake for themselves and give shooting no voice.

Locally focussed? Not so. Lots of English shooters are members because they are cheap. No more, no less.

[Demonic69]

But when our national organisations are failing at every opportunity egg should people not just go for cheap insurance?

[Countryman]

We might as well all take up golf then!

The larger organisations have faults. Become a member because as a member to can have a say in fixing those faults.

My concern as I said earlier is that we pay our dues and tend to think we have done our bit. We seem to think that absolves us of any other role in the future of shooting.

There is only so much we can do but if we each did a little it would be a lot. How about we introduce one person a year to the sport?

Only little but that would mount up to a lot of votes.

[DaveFirearmsUK]

I don't think several individual bodies is a problem in itself, the problem lies in unity and the will of the individual to get involved. Some organisations may simply be more focused on certain areas and this is ideal for some people, however people do need to appreciate the need to protect all forms of shooting and actively participate and this is sadly where it seems to fall down.

To use last years .22 petition as an example relevant to the thread. Almost every shooting organisation supported it, BASC sent out emails and featured it in their magazine several times. The countryside Alliance sent it out on their E-newsletters and I believe it featured at least once in their magazine, SACS featured it on their website and the NRA also had it on their website. It was featured in Gun Trade News and also the shooting times(in the letters section a few times IIRC).

It was also mentioned on various forums, facebook pages/groups, Firearms UK contacted over 300 clubs asking for support. International organisastions mentioned it and I believe it may even have been mentioned in the Daily Mail letters page.

There was Unity from the organisations the failing seemed to be on the part of individuals who still feel that it they don't need to become involved or that it doesn't affect them.

We also heard in the later stages of the petition that many people were still unaware of the petition so it does highlight communications problems despite all this publicity.

We do have positives to take, it achieved a fair increase of signatures compared to the last petition, it got people talking about .22 pistols, it got many more people active in lobbying and it created the foundations of unity which can be built on.



Frank/Countryman may be surprised but I believe we could be in agreement with this. As he says it is not simply a case of signing up as a member but actively getting involved. BASC represents 130,000 people IIRC but imagine the effect if a statement or message from BASC was backed with 100,000 letters from members.....

[Countryman]

Indeed we might Dave and if FUK renounced their previous position on the whole guns for self defence gambit then a lot of my natural concerns would be deflected. I think you could still be criticised but accepting that you will never get agreement from right minded Brits to turn this country into the Wild West would be a step forward to popular acceptability.

Until then though there is nobody credible to take any initiative forward unless you could persuade one of the big organisations to front it. Is FUK prepared to take a back seat on publicising itself for the good of shooting?

[DaveFirearmsUK]

Frank- Again I don't want to get bogged down on this issue of self defence that you keep bringing up but I assume you are aware that in part of the United Kingdom self defence is an accepted reason for a Firearms Certificate and it causes no issues.

We certainly accept that it is a controversial issue there is absolutely no doubt about that. It is something that will crop up from time to time and we see no reason why it shouldn't be debated in an honest and open manner, something that might set us apart from the other fine shooting organisations. We have never at any point stated we wanted to turn Britain into the "wild west" I would ask you kindly not to exaggerate.

This is the problem Frank you are twisting things and painting up a hysterical picture of Firearms UK. People will see this and unfairly judge us based on your comments. If you done this throughout the .22 petition campaign and are as influential as you claim then it is no wonder the petition failed. Not something to be proud of.

No doubt we will be criticized, we expect it from the anti's we don't expect it from progressively minded shooters who base their opinions on facts and are prepared to accept that unity and respect for all shooters is the future.

As an organisation we obviously do seek publicity to help spread our message but as I previously stated we share initiatives from other shooting associations and actively encourage support for them all for the good of shooting and unity. If we didn't publicise ourselves then there would be no point in having a campaign to get people to sign .22 petitions or write to their MPs.......


This really is unfortunate, I really want to move on from any disputes Frank but you continue to effectively troll when your time and knowledge could be put to better use in promoting shooting and encouraging people to lobby. Even if you do not like Firearms UK you can still encourage people to support our campaigns independently and not with association from us as you say for the good of shooting.

Now can we please move on and focus on more important things?

[Countryman]

I can't Dave no. I'm not Trolling you. Actually mentally I have discounted you being of any value to shooting and moved on.

Yes in Northern Ireland Firearms Certificates may under extenuating circumstances be Issued for self defence but as things hopefully quieten out there expect that to be reviewed. The government don't like guns. The threat of armed rebellion has been behind this since young men came back to a shambles after WW1. You will never succeed in this and it makes you a dodgy ally at best.

The self defence support is a genuine concern Dave. I'm sorry you don't see it. For me it's rather like following an initiative lead by David Icke ( if you remember him) you could have the best position in the world with all good intentions and backed by a majority.

However when the media point out that you were the bloke who believed he was the second coming the whole initiative would fold. Don't you see that?

Move on, distance yourself from such an untenable position and hopefully you can gain traction in time.

I accused FUK of being primarily self publicist and nothing you have said allays that concern.

You suggest I'm influential but I'm just an average shooter trying to do my bit for the good of shooting. I can only call it the way I see it.

[Sim G]

Frank is exactly why shooting as a sport and gun ownership in general is doomed in the UK. He'll offer his support but only when it fits with his parameters. The same single issue, selfish stance that has seen me effected by three bans. (Four, if you separate the RF/CF handgun bans...)