FirearmsUK - Unity 2015

[DavidRees]

I think Countryman is giving insufficient weight to the fact that in the eyes of the majority, desiring to own and use a gun for ANY purpose, whether for sport, hunting or even self-defence, is the damning fact. We are all tarred by that view, and arguing among ourselves about the self-defence issue is not going to help our overall cause. It is not what is being sought, after all.

The media, once aroused by an effective campaign from the shooting grassroots, would use ANYTHING, relevant or not, to counter our argument; it matters little what that is. So the issue of support or otherwise for owning firearms for self-defence is pointless--something else (actually, multiple somethings) would undoubtedly be thrown at us.

There is much justice in the call for the return of .22 pistols to Section 1 status, but it will not be easy to achieve, nor will it happen if we expend our energies arguing about issues which are not related to the initiative we should all be supporting. Let us focus on that, if we wish our collective sport to survive and prosper.

David.

[Countryman]

Sure Davidrees it's all me.

Currently I'm carrying a target of training over 200 new shooters to support the growth of a new facility in the South West that I've certainly played a part in bringing to the table.

I shoot pretty much every discipline but F-Class. Sorry but after a stint in prone .22 it sends me cold. So I'm pro pistol, PSG, Full bore, Smallbore and Gallery even black powder. Im an ex Pro stalker who travels far and wide to shoot, so I'm even up for getting bloody. I marched for Liberty and Livelihood and I've never been hunting with hounds. So I'm clearly the kind of shooter to sit back and let others take a lead whilst they divide and conquer our sport.

Hell I'm even in favour of a UK version of CCW but the difference is I know that this is a pipe dream and pushing that on a weary public, well let's just say it's not it's time.

If we play our cards right and get the timing right then maybe perhaps we could get an upswell of opinion to support .22lr target pistols. However the government currently feel that the needs of our sporting elite are adequately catered for.

BUT you could expect the government and its croney press to dig deep and smear and try to discredit any organistion involved. Dave and I seem to agree on the message but I have concerns about the messenger.

Why is our sport at risk? Well what have you done for it lately?

Ad hominem ain't gonna work with me.

[Countryman]

I think Countryman is giving insufficient weight to the fact that in the eyes of the majority, desiring to own and use a gun for ANY purpose, whether for sport, hunting or even self-defence, is the damning fact. We are all tarred by that view, and arguing among ourselves about the self-defence issue is not going to help our overall cause. It is not what is being sought, after all.

The media, once aroused by an effective campaign from the shooting grassroots, would use ANYTHING, relevant or not, to counter our argument; it matters little what that is. So the issue of support or otherwise for owning firearms for self-defence is pointless--something else (actually, multiple somethings) would undoubtedly be thrown at us.

There is much justice in the call for the return of .22 pistols to Section 1 status, but it will not be easy to achieve, nor will it happen if we expend our energies arguing about issues which are not related to the initiative we should all be supporting. Let us focus on that, if we wish our collective sport to survive and prosper.

David.

David I agree with what you say completely. I'm sorry our postings crossed.

I do understand the nature of the publics concern and appreciate how a left leaning press feeds the hysteria.

The trick would be to push at the points of least resistance and not get derailed unnecessarily by issues that might form a distraction to an effective campaign.

At this point in my dialogue with FUK after the Olympics Erika went Hulk on me.......

[dromia]

Sure Davidrees it's all me.

Currently I'm carrying a target of training over 200 new shooters to support the growth of a new facility in the South West that I've certainly played a part in bringing to the table.

I shoot pretty much every discipline but F-Class. Sorry but after a stint in prone .22 it sends me cold. So I'm pro pistol, PSG, Full bore, Smallbore and Gallery even black powder. Im an ex Pro stalker who travels far and wide to shoot, so I'm even up for getting bloody. I marched for Liberty and Livelihood and I've never been hunting with hounds. So I'm clearly the kind of shooter to sit back and let others take a lead whilst they divide and conquer our sport.....................................................
..................................................Why is our sport at risk? Well what have you done for it lately?

Ad hominem ain't gonna work with me.

I suspect that a lot of people on here do one hell of a lot to bring people into gun ownership and support shooting committing their own time.

Your post implies that people aren't other than you and as such is offensive, also I don't want to see a pishing match over this on here.

Ad hominem; you shouldn't expect to work the other way either.

[Countryman]

Nope Dromia as I said earlier I'm just an average shooter trying to do his bit.

Most shooters don't. Some have given everything and they should inspire us.

Look Dromia after the plaiting jam comment yesterday it should be clear that I'm not up for a row.

Ad hominem is about the nature of a person. I've not made a single remark about Dave or yourself. I have made rational comment about any number of organisations.

I'll leave it there.

[DaveFirearmsUK]

I think Countryman is giving insufficient weight to the fact that in the eyes of the majority, desiring to own and use a gun for ANY purpose, whether for sport, hunting or even self-defence, is the damning fact. We are all tarred by that view, and arguing among ourselves about the self-defence issue is not going to help our overall cause. It is not what is being sought, after all.

The media, once aroused by an effective campaign from the shooting grassroots, would use ANYTHING, relevant or not, to counter our argument; it matters little what that is. So the issue of support or otherwise for owning firearms for self-defence is pointless--something else (actually, multiple somethings) would undoubtedly be thrown at us.

There is much justice in the call for the return of .22 pistols to Section 1 status, but it will not be easy to achieve, nor will it happen if we expend our energies arguing about issues which are not related to the initiative we should all be supporting. Let us focus on that, if we wish our collective sport to survive and prosper.

David.

The media were strangely silent on the .22 pistol petition, the petition against airgun licencing in Scotland managed to reach the Scottish Daily Express with around 14,000 signatures. I suspect if the media did pick it up it may have got even more signatures due to the wider publicity outside of the shooting community.

I would be willing to debate any anti on the issue. Yes they will be subjective with their arguments but that will never change. We do however need to get out there and get facts into the public domain. The problem us too much airtime is given to people who know nothing or who scaremonger.

This debate I took part in is a perfect example, Mr Thomas(against gun ownership) got a lot of time to speak blatant untruths and scaremonger about firearms. Dr Kevin Yuill did state many excellent facts and figures.

Incidentally the interview was supposed to be about Nigel Farage's comments on the handgun ban being ridiculous but as you can hear it turned into being about gangs.


http://sputniknews.com/voiceofrussia_uk ... here-8248/

[Countryman]

The nub of the public perception issue David. Only the bad men have guns.

Genuinely I meet people frequently who don't know legal shooting exists. Guns are for gang members.

We published results of a sound test in which we used a .44 magnum and we were denounced by a local authority figure because such a thing couldn't be in private hands.

So we have to be without sin to have a hope of success.

[DaveFirearmsUK]

We are without sin Frank and that is why we(when I say we I mean all shooters) should not hide in the shadows or be afraid to stand up and be counted.


I'm not sure if you got a chance to listen to the radio debate above but the debate seemed to centre around "gun ownership and gang crime" no distinction was made regarding legal or illegal gun ownership. In fact it was cut from the final broadcast but I got Mr Thomas to admit he didn't know the law regarding firearms after I asked him how many of the people he knew involved in gun crime had Firearms Certificates.

I too meet a lot of people who think firearms are illegal or at the very least don't realise that they are obtainable by "ordinary" law abiding people. Happy to say one of the lads I recently introduced is applying for his SGC now. I hope there will be many more over the years.

[Countryman]

Lots of common ground there.

[DaveFirearmsUK]

I think there is lots of common ground Frank, we are after all out for protecting gun ownership as a whole. Which is why I hope we can move on from any disagreements we had and continue to fight for shooting. It sounds like you do a lot(as do many others as Dromia pointed out) and that is what we should continue to encourage from fellow shooters who perhaps don't do quite as much or who may understandably be struck by apathy.

Things are changing which is why we all need to get involved. I hope that support can be given to our initiative even if you still do not feel comfortable directly supporting us. I'll accept that if we can just get more people involved in the lobbying process to help make the changes we want.(.22 pistols back)