New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

24" and less, a place to discuss all things handgun related, section 7.3. Long barrelled revolvers, long barrelled pistols and section 5. Overseas contributions are more than welcome.

Moderator: dromia

Message
Author
Rarms
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#131 Post by Rarms »

JSC wrote:
So you are confirming that Merkle S&W LBRs are illegal as the law stands (assuming they haven't found a way to buy frames from S&W)?
Im not confirming how their products are classified no. Its up to them to satisfy themselves they are acting legally. My point was more that just because someone has one listed on their FAC, that does not make it strictly legal.

What I am saying is that my understanding of the law means that to maintain classification under Sec. 1 it would need to be made from parts that have never been previously assembled into a Sec 5 gun. If their guns have left the S&W factory as complete guns and then been made 'UK Legal' elsewhere then yes I would suggest they are not classified as Sec.1 under UK law.

Im not a lawyer though and as I said above, I recall hearing that the Anglo SLR's were deemed Sec.1 in court, so perhaps this has been done for other guns too...


<EDIT>

Couple of bits pulled from the 2016 guidance to police:

3.2 Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:
iii) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than
60 centimetres in length overall, ... (section 5(1)(aba));

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls (see also Chapter 13).

13.74 The term “component part” may be held (according to case law) as including (i) the barrel,
chamber, cylinder, (ii) frame, body or receiver, (iii) breech, block, bolt or other mechanism
for containing the charge at the rear of the chamber (iv), any other part of the firearm upon
which the pressure caused by firing the weapon impinges directly. Magazines, sights and
furniture are not considered component parts. The 9th report of the Firearms Consultative
Committee provides additional information on this subject.

</EDIT>
Last edited by Rarms on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JSC
Posts: 664
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:01 pm
Home club or Range: NRA
Location: Melksham, Wiltshire
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#132 Post by JSC »

Does anyone have details or transcripts of the ruling in the Anglo case we could see? That might help clear this up. When was that case heard?

Also, what/where is the actual wording in UK law which prohibits what we're talking about here?
Rarms
Posts: 432
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:52 pm
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#133 Post by Rarms »

Added an edit to my last post, and then typically found the last bit I was looking for, however put together the bits in bold below:

2.58 Section 7(1)(a) of the 1988 Act (as amended by the 1997 Act) provides that if any weapon
has at any time been a weapon
to which section 5(1) or 5(1A) of the 1968 Act applies,
it shall be treated as a prohibited weapon regardless of anything done for the purpose
of converting it into a weapon of a different kind.

3.2 Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:
iii) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than
60 centimetres in length overall, ... (section 5(1)(aba));

3.3 Note that the component parts of weapons falling under 5(1)(a), 5(1A)(a) or 5(1)(aba) are
also subject to section 5 controls (see also Chapter 13).

13.74 The term “component part” may be held (according to case law) as including (i) the barrel,
chamber, cylinder, (ii) frame, body or receiver, (iii) breech, block, bolt
or other mechanism
for containing the charge at the rear of the chamber (iv), any other part of the firearm upon
which the pressure caused by firing the weapon impinges directly. Magazines, sights and
furniture are not considered component parts. The 9th report of the Firearms Consultative
Committee provides additional information on this subject.
ordnance
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: N. Ireland. UK.
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#134 Post by ordnance »

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Glocks... I handed a M21 and M17 in during the 97 confiscation, and I'd love a Glock LBP, but so many, as yet, unanswered questions...


If they do make the only similarity with a Glock will be the way it looks, maybe not a bad thing they might improve the trigger.
Gh0st
Posts: 785
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 am
Home club or Range: FDPC
Location: West Country
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#135 Post by Gh0st »

ordnance wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Glocks... I handed a M21 and M17 in during the 97 confiscation, and I'd love a Glock LBP, but so many, as yet, unanswered questions...


If they do make the only similarity with a Glock will be the way it looks, maybe not a bad thing they might improve the trigger.

Slightly confused by this post?
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

http://www.bulletsandpixels.co.uk www.fdpc.org.uk
ordnance
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: N. Ireland. UK.
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#136 Post by ordnance »

Gh0st wrote:
ordnance wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Glocks... I handed a M21 and M17 in during the 97 confiscation, and I'd love a Glock LBP, but so many, as yet, unanswered questions...


If they do make the only similarity with a Glock will be the way it looks, maybe not a bad thing they might improve the trigger.

Slightly confused by this post?
Everything internally is going to be different just the frame would make it look like a Glock, and as the trigger on the original is poor maybe the LBP conversion will be better.
Gh0st
Posts: 785
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:30 am
Home club or Range: FDPC
Location: West Country
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#137 Post by Gh0st »

The Frame is a glock frame....
All views expressed are my own unless otherwise stated! So please take your time to consider my opinions as biased to what i think is best....

http://www.bulletsandpixels.co.uk www.fdpc.org.uk
ordnance
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:00 pm
Location: N. Ireland. UK.
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#138 Post by ordnance »

Gh0st wrote:The Frame is a glock frame....

Thats what i said the only thing Glock would be the frame, everything else slide etc would have to be made or modified, and as the trigger pull is mostly influenced by whats in the slide on Glocks maybe they could improve the trigger pull.
User avatar
bradaz11
Full-Bore UK Supporter
Posts: 4740
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:23 am
Home club or Range: The tunnel at Charmouth, BWSS
Location: Bristol
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#139 Post by bradaz11 »

From what I've seem on here before. If it has been registered as a complete gun. It's sec 5. If it's made as what would be sec 5 but never registered. Then it would be ok.
Obviously the easy solution to what ghost is banning done would be too make it from a non glock part only fame. But I'm not sure, i think i might have seen a post where he said it is a glock frame . So if registered as complete pistol, it should be a no go here...
Also wonder about the rfd side here. Are they a sec 5 dealer with the right permissions? Seems a big risk to accept something that could be sec 5 if you are only sec 1

Anyway. I'm off to shoot my G19
When guns are outlawed, only Outlaws will have guns
User avatar
Sim G
Posts: 10732
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:09 pm
Contact:

Re: New LBP coming to the UK hopefully

#140 Post by Sim G »

“Registered” has nothing to do with it. Primary legislation is actually quite simple. If the “weapon” has ever been of a prohibited type, then it is always prohibited, no matter what is done. Case law has now decreed that component parts are also a firearm, hence the bolt from a semi AR15 would be s5, but a bolt that has only ever existed as itself or part of a straight pull, is s1. This is exactly why we have straight pull military, s1 firearms in the UK, that have been constructed from “parts”.

There is case law where individuals have made full auto guns in their garage and were convicted of s5 possession. Registration is moot.
In 1978 I was told by my grand dad that the secret to rifle accuracy is, a quality bullet, fired down a quality barrel..... How has that changed?

Guns dont kill people. Dads with pretty Daughters do...!
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 0 guests