Blackstuff wrote:You haven't missed anything and when the fingers started a-pointing after the Hungerford, Dunblane and Cumbria every 'expert' witness called to answer questions on the subject said that no psychologist/psychiatrist, let alone a standard GP could necessarily predict what someone was going to do the second they left their surgery. 'Major' conditions would already be declared and be a prohibiting factor. I can only assume that this has stemmed from the seemingly erroneous claims in the US trying to link mass shooters with various autism conditions (themselves probably misdiagnosed).
The UK medical profession, AFAIK, have never even had the faintest whiff of culpability when it comes to major shooting incidents that I've observed, this whole thing just stinks of an empire building/money making exercise to me.
Yes - but what of the patient who has told his doctor several times of depression or anger issues ? Or of suicidal thoughts ? Or is on anti depresant meds ( which if missed would leave him unstable ) etc
Do you want him to be able to get a FAC ?
if you are looking at it like that, what about the Senior Police officers who returned FAC's to Ryan and I believe Hamilton after they had been revoked? shouldn't they take some responsibility?
if, coulda,shoulda all these things are available to us with 20/20 hindsight, at the moment the biggest problem the Police have in applying the Law is that they have decided to reduce and underfund their Firearms licencing Dept's, they are trying to deflect people from that by bringing in a 3rd party (who really don't want to be put in this position ! ) and at the same time increasing the workload and delays, and presumably the stress imposed on their employees, all this rather than increase resources to licence something they really don't think we the public should have access to...
And by way of contrast from a met area fac holder for a renewal:
"Did the online application with Met Police. 5 weeks later, cert came in the post, following phone call to both referees and house visit. Can't complain about that. And no fees for any doctor report. Happy days. "
"The fact you have a condition may not necessarily mean your application is refused. However, a false declaration could result in your prosecution, or your application being refused, or your existing license being revoked and your firearms or shotguns being seized."
That's OK then because I don't have a "license" (which should be spelt "licence"), I have a "certificate".
If that's their grasp of law and the English language then heaven help us all.
mag41uk wrote:And by way of contrast from a met area fac holder for a renewal:
"Did the online application with Met Police. 5 weeks later, cert came in the post, following phone call to both referees and house visit. Can't complain about that. And no fees for any doctor report. Happy days. "
Which is the one and only reason why I'm dreading moving out of the Met and into TVP.
This will add a lot of frustration to the process. I’m Nottinghamshire based and had to renew at the end of last and I can tell you it is extremely painful. Personally my GP charged £25, but I have heard about some charging several hundred! Secondly my GP wouldn’t give me a timeframe other than ‘it will take between 4-8 weeks’ (to fill in a 1 page tick form and sign at the bottom) and the police stuck to their guns on the 21 day window for applying for the renewal which created quite a bit of stress in the timing of the application. Thirdly you are relying on 2 separate civil service types effectively communicating with each other (in a timely manner) and basically you are looking at a recipe for disaster.
In the end my GP filled in the tick boxes but failed to sign the form and sent it to the police (without me being able to see said form first by email) at which point the police tried to boot out my application. Only a quick bit of negotiation with the police to accept the GPs email address as evidence of its authenticity allowed my renewal to get through. Otherwise I would have had to do it all over again, but this time my license would have expired! Like I said painful!!
Hi all, this system has been on the go for a while in Kent and whilst I agree with the General principle of joined up thinking, I will give you a few points from my own recent renewal for section 1.
1. My GP Practice covering 35,000 people has point blank (excuse the pun) refused to enter in to any communications with Kent police firearms dept . They won’t fill out forms or write letters, they do not consider themselves qualified to pass judgement on my fitness to hold firearms.
2. So up pops another GP (advertising in a gun shop) who is willing for £100 to see me and write a letter to Kent police to tell them that I am an alright chap and I can have a bazooka and 3lbs of Semtex if I should ask for it.... as long as I bring my medical records.
3. My GP want to charge me for a copy of my records. I have to make a freedom of info request to avoid that. They are not happy, I tell them it’s there fault we are hear in the first place!!! When I do get the records they are nowhere near complete. I have in my whole life only been to stay in hospital twice and neither of those is on my medical record. Or my last GP before I moved 5 years ago.
4. So a man struggling to speak the same language that I have never met before took 100 of my Great British Pounds. For 5mins of reading though a document that bares no relationship to my full medical records and sent a letter to Kent police, to say I am a nice level headed chap and no problem with me digging another cellar for more cabinets.
The System worked fine then.
It can all be a bit of a sham and when god forbid something does happen. Every one will have a piece of paper to hide behind, except the GP who:
A) does not care because he was in it for the Money
B) has the BMA backing him up, and very won’t strike you off even if you get caught sexually abusing your patients and staff. So missing the fact that you have just written a letter for a swivel eyed loon is a minor thing.
Regards to all
Blackstuff wrote:You haven't missed anything and when the fingers started a-pointing after the Hungerford, Dunblane and Cumbria every 'expert' witness called to answer questions on the subject said that no psychologist/psychiatrist, let alone a standard GP could necessarily predict what someone was going to do the second they left their surgery. 'Major' conditions would already be declared and be a prohibiting factor. I can only assume that this has stemmed from the seemingly erroneous claims in the US trying to link mass shooters with various autism conditions (themselves probably misdiagnosed).
The UK medical profession, AFAIK, have never even had the faintest whiff of culpability when it comes to major shooting incidents that I've observed, this whole thing just stinks of an empire building/money making exercise to me.
Yes - but what of the patient who has told his doctor several times of depression or anger issues ? Or of suicidal thoughts ? Or is on anti depresant meds ( which if missed would leave him unstable ) etc
Do you want him to be able to get a FAC ?
You must've missed the above highlight!
MCS - Nail on the head! This new requirement is ripe for abuse by a 'canny' GP and no GP is ever going to get hauled over the coals unless they failed to notify the police of a major condition, which they already were supposed to be doing before this miceky-mouse carry on!
Interestingly though, use a GP as a referee is not normally acceptable. The reason - they normnally demand payment and any referee should not be rewarded for agreeing.
"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it's difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine." - Abraham Lincoln
Why did kamikaze pilots wear helmets?
God loves stupid people, that is why he made so many of them.
MCS wrote:Hi all, this system has been on the go for a while in Kent and whilst I agree with the General principle of joined up thinking, I will give you a few points from my own recent renewal for section 1.
1. My GP Practice covering 35,000 people has point blank (excuse the pun) refused to enter in to any communications with Kent police firearms dept . They won’t fill out forms or write letters, they do not consider themselves qualified to pass judgement on my fitness to hold firearms.
2. So up pops another GP (advertising in a gun shop) who is willing for £100 to see me and write a letter to Kent police to tell them that I am an alright chap and I can have a bazooka and 3lbs of Semtex if I should ask for it.... as long as I bring my medical records.
3. My GP want to charge me for a copy of my records. I have to make a freedom of info request to avoid that. They are not happy, I tell them it’s there fault we are hear in the first place!!! When I do get the records they are nowhere near complete. I have in my whole life only been to stay in hospital twice and neither of those is on my medical record. Or my last GP before I moved 5 years ago.
4. So a man struggling to speak the same language that I have never met before took 100 of my Great British Pounds. For 5mins of reading though a document that bares no relationship to my full medical records and sent a letter to Kent police, to say I am a nice level headed chap and no problem with me digging another cellar for more cabinets.
The System worked fine then.
It can all be a bit of a sham and when god forbid something does happen. Every one will have a piece of paper to hide behind, except the GP who:
A) does not care because he was in it for the Money
B) has the BMA backing him up, and very won’t strike you off even if you get caught sexually abusing your patients and staff. So missing the fact that you have just written a letter for a swivel eyed loon is a minor thing.
Regards to all
Sent from my boing using "An application"
Just had the same thing with Kent police, however my FAO and BASC were a bit more helpful after not being able to find a GP to complete the report, in the end they pointed me to a doctor in Dover who did it same day for £50 upon sending him my medical note.
I did try just sending my medical notes to Kent police but they say they are not trained to interpret them.
I really hope that the various licensing departments in this country are reading this thread so they realise what a complete nonsense this medical check is.
If the departments are insisting on the medical check then at least make sure that the data they are receiving means something.
Otherwise it will just be another hoop for nothing.
and no GP is ever going to get hauled over the coals unless they failed to notify the police of a major condition, which they already were supposed to be doing before this miceky-mouse carry on! 
