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Re: Pistol
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:30 pm
by DavidRees
jack1 wrote:
I am really impressed with that. I had a K22 with all the 'bells and whistles' and it would not group smaller that 4 inches at 25 metres rested. Well done... Jack
Jack,
Thank you -- it was a good day for me! My targets are not always like that, and this season I've been busy, so I'm not getting as much time at the range as I would like -- I think I'd be hard-pushed to duplicate it this weekend, for example...
I am surprised, though, that your K22 could not group smaller than 10cm at 25m. Possibly it could be ammunition choice, though any reasonable quality ammo should group reasonably well through a 30cm barrel. Another factor might be the trigger; even rested, the relatively light nature of this gun means that trigger release has to be really carefully executed; it's a skill pistol shooters had, but since the effective demise of the sport in the UK, it has become a lost art. The K22 trigger does not help -- it is quite notchy, and at different stages of travel requires different pressures to advance. It's definitely the weak point of the K22, imho.
In the old days, the true test of accuracy with a pistol/ammo combination was a tool called a Ransom Rest. Like so much else, these have gone now, so we need to find other methods to work out whether our guns are grouping adequately or not. Ultimately, what you use the pistol for determines what accuracy you are after. I like shooting slowly at PL7 targets at 25m, so a really tight group matters for me; for those who do Practical, a 10cm group at that distance is likely more than good enough. Factors like handling, mag capacity, etc., become more important. All part of the fun of the sport...long may it last!
Re: Pistol
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:02 pm
by safetyfirst
Odd, I've got one of the first K22 pistols and the trigger is one of its best features, crisp, clean and short reset, the ROF you can get doing cheeky mag dumps is amazing.
Mine is the non target trigger, I didn't like the upgraded trigger at all...
Re: Pistol
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:14 pm
by DavidRees
It may be my experience of match .22 pistols from the old days, and 10m air pistols today, which causes me to question the quality of the K22 trigger. Compared to my Walther GSPs, etc., the K22 trigger is sadly lacking. It is however quite USABLE, and with practice, one can overcome the deficiences. The K22 was never designed as a match pistol; the fact that with care, it can shoot as well as it does is marvellous.
Both my wife and I each own a K22, and the triggers are slightly different in feel -- another sign of less than stellar function. Both pistols, though, are very, very accurate.
Re: Pistol
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:14 pm
by jack1
DavidRees wrote:jack1 wrote:
I am really impressed with that. I had a K22 with all the 'bells and whistles' and it would not group smaller that 4 inches at 25 metres rested. Well done... Jack
Jack,
Thank you -- it was a good day for me! My targets are not always like that, and this season I've been busy, so I'm not getting as much time at the range as I would like -- I think I'd be hard-pushed to duplicate it this weekend, for example...
I am surprised, though, that your K22 could not group smaller than 10cm at 25m. Possibly it could be ammunition choice, though any reasonable quality ammo should group reasonably well through a 30cm barrel. Another factor might be the trigger; even rested, the relatively light nature of this gun means that trigger release has to be really carefully executed; it's a skill pistol shooters had, but since the effective demise of the sport in the UK, it has become a lost art. The K22 trigger does not help -- it is quite notchy, and at different stages of travel requires different pressures to advance. It's definitely the weak point of the K22,
imho.
In the old days, the true test of accuracy with a pistol/ammo combination was a tool called a Ransom Rest. Like so much else, these have gone now, so we need to find other methods to work out whether our guns are grouping adequately or not. Ultimately, what you use the pistol for determines what accuracy you are after. I like shooting slowly at PL7 targets at 25m, so a really tight group matters for me; for those who do Practical, a 10cm group at that distance is likely more than good enough. Factors like handling, mag capacity, etc., become more important. All part of the fun of the sport...long may it last!
Yup all you say is correct. Trouble is I'm a Jurassic handgunner, those heady days of custom revolvers and pistols, trigger jobs and 'Bowler' grips. 'Real' PP1s and 1500s
Re my K22 I shot all the range of RWS from R50 to semi auto and nothing worked. I did find the 'red image' on the front sight a problem. However If a club member has a K22 a may give it a spin and who knows. It is a good looking and functioning gun and so much better than the GSG
have a good weekend
Jack
Re: Pistol
Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:14 pm
by Dark Skies
shugie wrote:It's certainly an interesting challenge, I can get reasonable results with a rifle, but my K22 is much trickier to shoot accurately. From shooting from a rest I know it's actually quite accurate, but I lack the skills to match.
It's largely down to a combination of a smaller sight radius of a pistol compared to a rifle (so all those tiny imperfections of sight placement and wobble are not so easily perceptable) and not having the same triangular bracing effect you get with shouldering a rifle - which also makes trigger control even more of a factor.
Weirdly I find I shoot my BP revolvers most accurately with a sort of casual snap shooting / plinking method. I think it must be a muscle memory thing.
Like Sundance "I'm better when I move."
Re: Pistol
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:15 am
by Dellboy
Love my BP pistol but really cant get into the long barrel ones especially since shooting the real thing abroad
Re: Pistol
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:08 pm
by jack1
Dellboy wrote:Love my BP pistol but really cant get into the long barrel ones especially since shooting the real thing abroad
After shooting 'real' custom revolvers up to 1997 today's handguns do little for me. The Volqurtsen LBP at £2300no doubt the best but is more than I would pay and in the 'old days' we wouldn't have even considered .22. over 38 special in our custom built K and L frame Smiths.
Shame about the X trim K22 I had high hopes for it.
Re: Pistol
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:06 pm
by Dellboy
jack1 wrote:Dellboy wrote:Love my BP pistol but really cant get into the long barrel ones especially since shooting the real thing abroad
After shooting 'real' custom revolvers up to 1997 today's handguns do little for me. The Volqurtsen LBP at £2300no doubt the best but is more than I would pay and in the 'old days' we wouldn't have even considered .22. over 38 special in our custom built K and L frame Smiths.
Shame about the X trim K22 I had high hopes for it.
well im buying a CZ next year and leaving it in Czech
Re: Pistol
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:31 pm
by ordnance
Dellboy wrote:jack1 wrote:Dellboy wrote:Love my BP pistol but really cant get into the long barrel ones especially since shooting the real thing abroad
After shooting 'real' custom revolvers up to 1997 today's handguns do little for me. The Volqurtsen LBP at £2300no doubt the best but is more than I would pay and in the 'old days' we wouldn't have even considered .22. over 38 special in our custom built K and L frame Smiths.
Shame about the X trim K22 I had high hopes for it.
well im buying a CZ next year and leaving it in Czech
What did you have in mind. ? I owned a CZ75 SPO1 Shadow had it for 5 years great pistol, felt like a change and bought a Sig Sauer p226. If you want to spend a bit more then the Shadow 2 are appearing at the ranges here another great pistol.
Re: Pistol
Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:49 pm
by bradaz11
Dellboy wrote:jack1 wrote:Dellboy wrote:Love my BP pistol but really cant get into the long barrel ones especially since shooting the real thing abroad
After shooting 'real' custom revolvers up to 1997 today's handguns do little for me. The Volqurtsen LBP at £2300no doubt the best but is more than I would pay and in the 'old days' we wouldn't have even considered .22. over 38 special in our custom built K and L frame Smiths.
Shame about the X trim K22 I had high hopes for it.
well im buying a CZ next year and leaving it in Czech
If you are going to buy a gun and leave it in a foreign country, with you not being able to take it from the range, why not get into 7.3 in this country, and start a collection, the newly released trials Glock 19's are looking pretty good, there might be another M&P about, plus you could always look at older handguns. I know there are a few 1911's on 7.3 for sale at my club atm